[DoK] Request for information on dps DoK.

[Zxul]

Continued from viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27625&start=140, as per requested by Azarael making a thread dedicated to it.

I am asking for more information about what is planned in DoK rework, and how it will affect dok dps builds, especially non cookie cutter ones.

Atime there are 3 dok dps builds:
- Cookie cutter one- dual wield+ aa haste, shines in premade setup (with guard+healer) but has major weaknesses outside of it (fighting vs kiters outside the ideal setup, for example).
- Hybrid/survival one- balanced stats and abilities, allowing it to have a response to every situation- decent mdps in regular situations, can switch to semi decent healer when needed, can switch to a decent single target rdps/aoe rdps when needed. In exchange, looses specific powerful class abilities (heal debuff for example). Works best for solo/pug.
Build is heal tree for team hot+team absorb+higher Fist dmg, rest into lifetap tree for Devour Essence+ higher dmg on Rend/Transfer Essence/CoV. Also high proc chance allowing to do decent dmg with low strength/decent dmg with ranged (35% CoV with tactic+ 25% Khaine's Imbuement), chalice for regen, and balanced stats (taking mine for example, 550 sh strength+60 sh melee power, 400 will, 500 toughness).
- Glass cannon RDPS one- sacrifices flexibility and survivability for high ranged dmg. Full heal tree for higher Fist dmg+ full strength talis +Potent Covenants/ Bloodthirst tactics. From speaking with those that play it, Fist in this spec crits for 700 sh, combined with 35% for 300+ CoC hits.

Whats are- if possible to say at the time- the changes planned to be implemented, and will the dok dps builds besides the cookie cutter one still remain a valuable options?

[Azarael]

The only change that will be relevant for current DoK builds:

- Consume Essence is reintroduced, mirroring Transfer Essence in every way except the targets of the heal are Self, Defensive Target (if any) and allies 10ft around (self or defensive target, depending)
- Transfer Essence's AP cost is 70

For the purpose of current DoK builds, there are no other changes.

[Zxul]

The only change that will be relevant for current DoK builds:

- Consume Essence is reintroduced, mirroring Transfer Essence in every way except the targets of the heal are Self, Defensive Target (if any) and allies 10ft around (self or defensive target, depending)
- Transfer Essence's AP cost is 70

For the purpose of current DoK builds, there are no other changes.

Thanks Azarael.

Actually a good change for a solo roaming/pug- atime running into fight while solo roaming, if I want to heal a specific target (the usual squishy WE) I can use Rend + regular heals only- with this change I will be able to heal with Consume Essence as well, without having to try and get a team invite in while also trying to outheal dmg with 400 will and -20% healing.

[catholicism198]

I knew Consume Essence and Divine Strike would eventually make a return, but what's the reasoning for doubling the AP cost of Transfer Essence?

What about for the non"meta" builds?

[Azarael]

The AP cost limit on Transfer Essence is because the spam of it was one of the things that broke the melee healing part of the rework.

To elaborate further, in the present rework, WP and DoK have four stances, one of which is a "null" stance. In this null stance they are as they are now with the exception of the changes I listed above. Any modification to any skill that existed under the old mode is linked to one of the other stances. There is no "stance dancing", since changing is a 5 second fragile cast; I use the term only because I can't think of a better one.

Though I do not anticipate much usage of the null stance, I find that it is simply easier not to threaten the existing playstyle when a larger rework is proposed.

[catholicism198]

That's an interesting route to take...
At first glace, a 5 second cast does seem excessive, but I'm sure you'll be adding other benefits/features to Covenants/Prayers to warrant the long cast time to prevent the class from being a jack-of-all trades *and* master-of-all sort of thing.
The 3 to 5 to 2 minute CD on Covenants/Prayers did a get a bit confusing back when .ab ex was introduced.

To be fair, Transfer Essence was really the only thing we could do back then...selecting a target to dps as well as one to heal was a bit cumbersome and very difficult to manage.
In a perfect world, we'd have access to more passive healing abilities- Consume Essence/Divine Strike will help- but adding/moving a 15 point ability like Khaine's Refreshment/Martyr's Blessing would be amazing? ...that ability is tailor made for front line healing:
"You throw yourself open to Khaine's influence as power rushes through you for up to 3 seconds. Each second, all allies within 30 feet of you will regain 139 health, and you will lose 20 Soul Essence. This effect will end if you lose your concentration, or run out of Soul Essence to power it with."
It's wasted on back line healing.

Thanks for the transparency.

*Also worth noting: Life-taps, from my (semi-limited) testing, are very ineffective against Keep Lords- not because we aren't dealing enough damage but because the heal component isn't healing for as much as it's supposed to- It's been a while since I've tried it on my DoK, but Rend Soul/Transfer Essence/etc work the same way as a Squig's Taste Like Stuntie, which only heals about 1/4 of the damage you deal, instead of the total amount of damage you do. I get healed for, iirc, 64~ when I hit the KL for 250~

This is something that's a little difficult to test because the opportunities we have to test anything KL related are fairly limited.

** Will the proc nerf remain on (life-tap/heals) Covenants/Prayers or will it be reverted?

[Uleleos1]

The AP cost limit on Transfer Essence is because the spam of it was one of the things that broke the melee healing part of the rework.

To elaborate further, in the present rework, WP and DoK have four stances, one of which is a "null" stance. In this null stance they are as they are now with the exception of the changes I listed above. Any modification to any skill that existed under the old mode is linked to one of the other stances. There is no "stance dancing", since changing is a 5 second fragile cast; I use the term only because I can't think of a better one.

Though I do not anticipate much usage of the null stance, I find that it is simply easier not to threaten the existing playstyle when a larger rework is proposed.

Can we get an better insight in this rework maybe?

[Unstoppable1776]

I assume since they wont change beastlord/ruin because of planned changes....they plan on making the stances similar to a zealot or a RP where the stats get converted. ex willpower to str

[sinadin]

I assume since they wont change beastlord/ruin because of planned changes....they plan on making the stances similar to a zealot or a RP where the stats get converted. ex willpower to str

this would be awesome - as stated in an earlier thread, I hate to be forced to do SCs for some proper melee gear

[Azarael]

All stances excent the null stance convert stats. This was part of the previous rework as well.