[DoK] Melee Heal (Shield) Spec Observations and Suggestions

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Luuca
Posts: 1178

[DoK] Melee Heal (Shield) Spec Observations and Suggestions

Post#1 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:00 pm

Having played exclusively as Sword and Shield DoK over the past 4 days, there are a few gaps in the build that I feel could use some filling. I will only be addressing the melee healing DoK with shield as that is my only level 40/62. I am using a mixed set of 3 Mercenary and 3 Dominator with 2 Genesis rings and a 2-piece +parry/+parry strikethrough jewelry. Link to Armory

The biggest gap I perceive is the all or nothing nature of melee healing. In order to be effective at melee healing, you need to outfit your character with DPS focused gear, forsaking any Willpower for Strength. To optimize your damage on Transfer Essence (Your main group heal) you will want to slot the Divine Fury tactic for 25% more damage at the cost of 20% less healing from direct heals (casted). This playstyle seemed the most logical to me and although my gear is somewhat not BIS, it works well in any situation with an enemy to Dps. That said, without an enemy near, you have no healing per se. Layer on top of that the class does not have any cc breaks or “escape” tools, and the glaring need for viable casted heals on self, as well as others, becomes painfully apparent.

The common issue is being punted, slow puddled or snared, and ranged down by the opposition MRDPS while helplessly spamming a 180 point HoT on yourself. I would like to see some method for producing self-heals effective enough to keep yourself alive while working your way back into melee range of an enemy target. This, I imagine, would be some sort of new ability. Shield equipped required, it could be a channeled ability like a Hold the Line for DoKs that would pulse heal you while draining AP and perhaps increase your Disrupt or Block chance by a percentage while active – say 10% - and lasting until out of AP or another ability is used (just like HtL).

Another issue for Melee Heal DoKs, like every other player, is the constant snares in ORvR and SCs. While an issue for all classes, every melee class in game has some sort of snare break and/or a charge to overcome this. Melee heal DoKs do not. As such, we are perhaps the easiest class in the entire game to kite-kill. This issue could be remedied in a few ways; Proc run speed on shield block for example, but that would entail using the one shield in-game with that proc. I’m OK with that. Many epic weapons have this proc. I would also think that taking a seldom used tactic like Bloodthirst [Covenant of Celerity will now deal 225 Spirit Damage] and adding on a run speed proc every time the covenant procs – say 30% for 3 seconds – would not only help alleviate this issue, but also add value to the tactic for both melee healing DoKs as well as pure Dps DoKs.

The last point I’d like to bring up is one I noticed within the first hour of playing. Rend Soul is underperforming for the cost. I documented my findings in the other thread, so the simplest solution I can think of is to add Rend Soul to the Empowered Transfer tactic. It would need an increase from its base 350% of damage done to around 400% of damage done or a 25% increase in its base damage. Either way, Transfer Essence is so much better right now on any target, I seldom use Rend Soul.

Other than those three gaps, I feel the change is a good one and have enjoyed playing as melee heals.
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adamthelc
Posts: 526

Re: [DoK] Melee Heal (Shield) Spec Observations and Suggestions

Post#2 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:53 pm

Probably haven't dont as much testing as you, but tried out the WP a bit. Seems kind of like a winmore spec, but maybe it could do well if both sides are competitive.

My best success was going grace/salv and not using the heal reducing talents. But my SR was healing for more than my TotD, so that spec didnt really make sense.

When you take into account uptime on a target, the unreliability of the heals and the increase in damage taken. I just dont see the advantage it has over a book and hammer WP.

It can be fun and do ok, but from my experience a backline priest is going to be better in most are all situations where you actually need to be better. But it wouldnt surprise me if the shield was good in a competitive 6v6 or in niche situations. That's harder for me to personally try out though.

If you want to have fun I think it's ok. If you want to be a better healer I am not sure it's the way to go.

Some things that could make it better

A close combat like tactic like MDPS get.

Some kind of boost to survivability while stunned. Like a mist weaver used to have, but that might be too strong.

Allowing sigmars radiance heals to crit or at least synergize with other WP tactics.

Maybe getting more contribution from str and willpower when you have a shield on.

I dont really know where its expected to be from a design standpoint. Is it supposed to heal more with a near 100% uptime on a target than a backline WP or the same? If it's supposed to be the same then it will never heal as much.

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wargrimnir
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Re: [DoK] Melee Heal (Shield) Spec Observations and Suggestions

Post#3 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:51 pm

adamthelc wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:53 pm
I dont really know where its expected to be from a design standpoint.
Fun to play. Effective at a role. Run into the thick of things and bash people with your mates.
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Luuca
Posts: 1178

Re: [DoK] Melee Heal (Shield) Spec Observations and Suggestions

Post#4 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:35 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:51 pm
adamthelc wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:53 pm
I dont really know where its expected to be from a design standpoint.
Fun to play. Effective at a role. Run into the thick of things and bash people with your mates.
bashing people with your mates may work on Order cause you have them tiny dwarves, but ever try wielding a Black orc?
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xarax
Posts: 59

Re: [DoK] Melee Heal (Shield) Spec Observations and Suggestions

Post#5 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:25 pm

In between i like switching to Melee Heal on my DoK with this https://officialrorbuilder.herokuapp.co ... ,9591,4985

Maximize heal via TE. It works fine as long as some enemies are nearby. It is ok in SC and small scale.
But i had issues in Forts and Keep/WB fights.

Did someone try https://officialrorbuilder.herokuapp.co ... ,9591,4986?

having the ae hot, ae absorb and grp dispell by losing 10% crit and 25% dmg?
<<<Knochenschwert - Disciple of Khaine - RR81>>>
<<<Knochenschild - Blackguard - RR62>>>

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Tesq
Posts: 5110

Re: [DoK] Melee Heal (Shield) Spec Observations and Suggestions

Post#6 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:07 pm

I would like to know in which way a shield dok/wp is effective for a role per wargrimmir

-it is not more tanky than a chalice/book build due low avoidance which get half bypassed by any rdps or ignored by slayer on des side aswell and lack absorb tactic on heal crit.
-it dont heal better as raw output over time
-it dont heal better as max single heal output.
-heals output is inconsistent due block/parry instead a consistent flow of caster dok/wp.
-it can only heal melee vs both if you go chalice/book ones.
-any shield for it have crap stat assignation.....seriusly
-it's based on str again basically killing any synergy with other heal mastery in a game where you spec 2 mastery always and not 1 and then you custom your playstyle as you want with it. If you cant a class have flaws.

I call this something it dosent work nor is effective at nothing sy. Just say " it can be fun" not also effective.
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"Loop warned into oblivion" ......smell like chaosy enought :D
Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D

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wargrimnir
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Re: [DoK] Melee Heal (Shield) Spec Observations and Suggestions

Post#7 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:05 pm

Tesq wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:07 pm
I would like to know in which way a shield dok/wp is effective for a role per wargrimmir

-it is not more tanky than a chalice/book build due low avoidance which get half bypassed by any rdps or ignored by slayer on des side aswell and lack absorb tactic on heal crit.
-it dont heal better as raw output over time
-it dont heal better as max single heal output.
-heals output is inconsistent due block/parry instead a consistent flow of caster dok/wp.
-it can only heal melee vs both if you go chalice/book ones.
-any shield for it have crap stat assignation.....seriusly
-it's based on str again basically killing any synergy with other heal mastery in a game where you spec 2 mastery always and not 1 and then you custom your playstyle as you want with it. If you cant a class have flaws.

I call this something it dosent work nor is effective at nothing sy. Just say " it can be fun" not also effective.
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[email protected] for exploits and cheaters.
grimnir.me Some old WAR blog

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Unstoppable1776
Posts: 562

Re: [DoK] Melee Heal (Shield) Spec Observations and Suggestions

Post#8 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:33 pm

I would give up on trying any suggestions. As soon as we were told willpower was useful for mdok/ wp I knew any relevant discussion was over
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Tesq
Posts: 5110

Re: [DoK] Melee Heal (Shield) Spec Observations and Suggestions

Post#9 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:23 pm

Spoiler:
wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:05 pm
Tesq wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:07 pm
I would like to know in which way a shield dok/wp is effective for a role per wargrimmir

-it is not more tanky than a chalice/book build due low avoidance which get half bypassed by any rdps or ignored by slayer on des side aswell and lack absorb tactic on heal crit.
-it dont heal better as raw output over time
-it dont heal better as max single heal output.
-heals output is inconsistent due block/parry instead a consistent flow of caster dok/wp.
-it can only heal melee vs both if you go chalice/book ones.
-any shield for it have crap stat assignation.....seriusly
-it's based on str again basically killing any synergy with other heal mastery in a game where you spec 2 mastery always and not 1 and then you custom your playstyle as you want with it. If you cant a class have flaws.

I call this something it dosent work nor is effective at nothing sy. Just say " it can be fun" not also effective.
I think something went missing editing i only see my quote
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"Loop warned into oblivion" ......smell like chaosy enought :D
Nazgul--> ambitious but rubbish, cit Blast :D

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 5291
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Re: [DoK] Melee Heal (Shield) Spec Observations and Suggestions

Post#10 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:37 pm

Unstoppable1776 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:33 pm
I would give up on trying any suggestions. As soon as we were told willpower was useful for mdok/ wp I knew any relevant discussion was over
I've taken feedback into consideration in the past, you guys just come off really hostile which doesn't exactly spur me into making changes quickly. If anything I think the argument to change all the healer stuff into full healer gear is the most appealing at the moment.
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[email protected] for exploits and cheaters.
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