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[we] having trouble bursting down enemies

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mituwelf
Posts: 13

[we] having trouble bursting down enemies

Post#1 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:17 pm

so most fights that i win one vs one is not because of burst damage, but constant damage plus pots =p
im rr 55 full conqueror right now
what should i invest in to be more burst , and die less to wl/wh burst damage, im having trouble killing them when they are kd

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1771

Re: [we] having trouble bursting down enemies

Post#2 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:46 pm

well, main factors for maximizing your burst are;
-mainhand weapon dps (higher means higher contribution to even ability dmg)
-str which leads to melee dmg bonus on a 5:1 converstion
-melee crit, upon crit your dmg is 1.5x multiplied, with tactic its 2.0x multiplier
-dmg bonus tactic stacking; Flankking +15% from rear, Taste of Blood +15% when proccing, another 3rd one when opening from stealth which I myself avoid, 4th option is now Bloodlord weapon for +5% dmg and some armor nerf (-10% armor for your 1100 armor is barely felt)

At rr55 I assume you have learned the ancient skill of AW spamming, but when your Feinted Positioning is not up and target knows when not to turn back, using Slice or EB might be better than AW.
There are 3 "main"/most common mastery specs for WE, maybe most popular is WB, then OYK and not even sure anyone is still trying to make SS function. I know why WB is good and why midtree hdbuff is also good, but my personal favourite "burst" spec involves Pierce Armor for the WS buff (your AA hits bit better with minor extra WS to armor pen conversion) - and OYK is excellent utility got catching all the million order rdps players, not to mention extra points to left tree make RA hit even harder. (as well option for the EOIP giving even more armor pen, so you can unload 4-7k dmg with total armor pen in 3s window if all RA crit on a squishy target).
WB is solid spec regardless, due to ninjastealth speed buff + healdebuff also being in same tree.

My usual opening rotation;
opener + PA + AW + (now target reacts at 2s mark) + KD if its trying to kite, more AW if back still turned or WP/EB if it becomes a duel vs another melee/tank + then flow of AW/EB/Slice depending on target/fight circumstances or even OYK now
either the target drops dead within 3-6sec, or the "gank" is now over and you either have to face a longer duel, or prepare to disengage and pick something else.

your problem however seems that you either want to win vs other melees and survive their dmg, or maximize your own burst dmg?
you cannot get both, so you have to choose whether to max your own burst peak potential, or whether to start increasing defences so you win vs other melees trying to burst you. if you want defences, get lot of parry, lower chance to be critted, maybe bit more wounds, and maybe even some disrupt/dodge.
If you want to really maximize parry, you might even try some other specs that drop the idea of using crit tactic and stacking crit, so you turn into a riposte monster that lets enemies stab themselves to death due to high parry. (im myself experimenting with left+mid trees atm + high parry; riposte feels borderline broken as it is now when running over 50 parry and proccing lot of Kisses and sorc/dok procs. you dot your enemies and then let them parry themselves to death, OYK if they want to flee)

The issue with WE remains that as every new set is released, the option for your targets to get ever more defensive increases - meaning that their rising wounds, armor, chance to be crit, will be making WE burst harder to land (assuming target is not another failspec SW or engi running 5k wounds and then getting angry because they died in 2sec).
good healers with endgame gear and proper reflexes are nigh impossible to kill on your own - and forget dueling slayers, they have both high parry and ignore your parry completely, vs riposte parry spec WHs you have a chance even if their own parry buff is superior vs your parry stacking arsenal (also parrying their Declare Anathema is absurd as hell and maybe broken/bugged too). most WLs, if they cannot down you in 3s are easy targets, when their opening burst ends they often out of AP and are trying to figure already an escape path (you can survive the burst by ensuring your position allows parry + small chance to be crit upon)

tldr; you must choose between your own burst and your own survival

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kmark101
Posts: 249

Re: [we] having trouble bursting down enemies

Post#3 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:48 pm

Your best bet to improve your damage (on any class) is to run more PvE. Sadly Bloodlord weapons are crushing any competition by default, in this wonderful PvP game...
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

mituwelf
Posts: 13

Re: [we] having trouble bursting down enemies

Post#4 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:59 pm

Aurandilaz wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:46 pm
well, main factors for maximizing your burst are;
-mainhand weapon dps (higher means higher contribution to even ability dmg)
-str which leads to melee dmg bonus on a 5:1 converstion
-melee crit, upon crit your dmg is 1.5x multiplied, with tactic its 2.0x multiplier
-dmg bonus tactic stacking; Flankking +15% from rear, Taste of Blood +15% when proccing, another 3rd one when opening from stealth which I myself avoid, 4th option is now Bloodlord weapon for +5% dmg and some armor nerf (-10% armor for your 1100 armor is barely felt)

At rr55 I assume you have learned the ancient skill of AW spamming, but when your Feinted Positioning is not up and target knows when not to turn back, using Slice or EB might be better than AW.
There are 3 "main"/most common mastery specs for WE, maybe most popular is WB, then OYK and not even sure anyone is still trying to make SS function. I know why WB is good and why midtree hdbuff is also good, but my personal favourite "burst" spec involves Pierce Armor for the WS buff (your AA hits bit better with minor extra WS to armor pen conversion) - and OYK is excellent utility got catching all the million order rdps players, not to mention extra points to left tree make RA hit even harder. (as well option for the EOIP giving even more armor pen, so you can unload 4-7k dmg with total armor pen in 3s window if all RA crit on a squishy target).
WB is solid spec regardless, due to ninjastealth speed buff + healdebuff also being in same tree.

My usual opening rotation;
opener + PA + AW + (now target reacts at 2s mark) + KD if its trying to kite, more AW if back still turned or WP/EB if it becomes a duel vs another melee/tank + then flow of AW/EB/Slice depending on target/fight circumstances or even OYK now
either the target drops dead within 3-6sec, or the "gank" is now over and you either have to face a longer duel, or prepare to disengage and pick something else.

your problem however seems that you either want to win vs other melees and survive their dmg, or maximize your own burst dmg?
you cannot get both, so you have to choose whether to max your own burst peak potential, or whether to start increasing defences so you win vs other melees trying to burst you. if you want defences, get lot of parry, lower chance to be critted, maybe bit more wounds, and maybe even some disrupt/dodge.
If you want to really maximize parry, you might even try some other specs that drop the idea of using crit tactic and stacking crit, so you turn into a riposte monster that lets enemies stab themselves to death due to high parry. (im myself experimenting with left+mid trees atm + high parry; riposte feels borderline broken as it is now when running over 50 parry and proccing lot of Kisses and sorc/dok procs. you dot your enemies and then let them parry themselves to death, OYK if they want to flee)

The issue with WE remains that as every new set is released, the option for your targets to get ever more defensive increases - meaning that their rising wounds, armor, chance to be crit, will be making WE burst harder to land (assuming target is not another failspec SW or engi running 5k wounds and then getting angry because they died in 2sec).
good healers with endgame gear and proper reflexes are nigh impossible to kill on your own - and forget dueling slayers, they have both high parry and ignore your parry completely, vs riposte parry spec WHs you have a chance even if their own parry buff is superior vs your parry stacking arsenal (also parrying their Declare Anathema is absurd as hell and maybe broken/bugged too). most WLs, if they cannot down you in 3s are easy targets, when their opening burst ends they often out of AP and are trying to figure already an escape path (you can survive the burst by ensuring your position allows parry + small chance to be crit upon)

tldr; you must choose between your own burst and your own survival
ty for the tips!
can you link oyk build from the arrer builder? whats worth getting on it?
heres what i came up with
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,5611,5612

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1771

Re: [we] having trouble bursting down enemies

Post#5 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:22 pm

something like that yes, elixir choice depending whether you face lot of bws/ams with disrupt or if you like armor pen. later ofc you can get both.

my current (experiment) build for dueling and forgetting about bursting people but slowly parry/dot to win; https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,5611,5613
occasionally switching to heal Kiss tactic if in sc with 0 heals (generally its still minuscule selfhealing in total due to Kiss being mitigated etc), or Broad Severing if in fort and I'm pretending to do something, or occasionally absorb barrier if I feel extra charge not needed (definitely strong choice for winning 1v1), or even taste of blood - for 1v1 it all depends on class being faced and other possible circumstances and you have decent number of choices, AA haste increase also ok, as is flanking and bleeding edge
rota; opener + PA + EB + WP + hdbuff + EB + EB + Slice/AW depending on target etc.

stacking, Quick Escape, Elixir of Shadows, Fleetfooted (tactic) and then Flee! and you become a long distance runner that makes WLs with pounce/charge envious of you. (and maybe someone thinks you're speedhacking when you keep going for 20-30s with rotation of different speed buffs lol)

mituwelf
Posts: 13

Re: [we] having trouble bursting down enemies

Post#6 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:34 pm

oh i liked, gonna try both, working now on my gear too, want to get sentinel+vanquisher and invader to test

TreefAM
Posts: 44

Re: [we] having trouble bursting down enemies

Post#7 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:46 pm

I'm currently using this build and it's working more or less alright.
RoR.builders - Witch Elf
I do miss not having the heal debuff from black lotus though.
My gear isn't really anything impressive, still running with subj weapons, 4piece conq, 4 piece beast lord bonus and the rest are t4 rvr influence and genesis jewelry.

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Alfa1986
Posts: 331

Re: [we] having trouble bursting down enemies

Post#8 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:03 pm


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Zxul
Posts: 538

Re: [we] having trouble bursting down enemies

Post#9 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:55 pm

Aurandilaz wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:46 pm
The issue with WE remains that as every new set is released, the option for your targets to get ever more defensive increases - meaning that their rising wounds, armor, chance to be crit, will be making WE burst harder to land (assuming target is not another failspec SW or engi running 5k wounds and then getting angry because they died in 2sec).
From other hand with bloodlord set dps got that much more crit, which might make anticrit the new meta. Currently on my hybrid dps dok I run with 275 init, FS3, and another -6% to be crit from items, and now I'm changing stuff to add extra -8% to be crit from items since current spec puts me at base -8% or so to be crit which just ain't enough. And it is likely that I will eventually go FS4 on top.
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