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Witch Elf

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine

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pandrax115
Posts: 15

Witch Elf

Post#1 » Fri May 08, 2020 4:51 pm

39/40 Witch Elf
And looking for a little direction. I've played round with so many builds I've found on the forums, And a few of my own I've made up. Each seems to have its own play style and is very unique. But on what already seems to be a very gimped class there is no point in learning to love a spec that's not TOP TIER.

So my question to you is.
What is the TOP tier build for:
SC -
RVR (group)
RVR (Solo Roaming)

My current Build I'm heading towards for solo roaming. ( I spam AW>RA)
RoR.builders - Witch Elf

Additional question, Does FP make my AW negate all armour from the front ? And does it make Flanking +15% apply from the front ?

Any Advice would be much appreciated !

Thanks.

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Vilard
Posts: 8

Re: Witch Elf

Post#2 » Thu May 14, 2020 9:18 am

I was in similar situation. Lots of builds tested only to make the class less gimped. Currently I playing with this (I am rr60+ so add 2 points to get HS):

RoR.builders - Witch Elf

IMO crit tactic and crit chance are essential for WE to work. But you need the crit chance. I did the math on that and you will get an average 0.44% dmg increase for every crit chance point you have (so Increased Pain is a 10% dmg increase at about 22% crit chance).

I didn't find any other way to get the burst I need. And the KD+AeE dmg+morale drain/boost from OYN is great.

It works for me in oRvR and SCs or even solo roams (but the only way a WE should roam is with another WE imo). For WB setup I loose Flanking and go for Close Combat.

I stopped using RA at some point as it is really unreliable. There are so many abilities in this game that break the channel that I rarely saw the whole RA going off.

And to answer your question. FP makes your AW (and other positional abilities) ignore positioning - so you will get the "ignore armor" effect from all sides. FP does not work for tactics.

Chubbo
Posts: 4

Re: Witch Elf

Post#3 » Fri May 15, 2020 3:38 pm

Vilard wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:18 am
I was in similar situation. Lots of builds tested only to make the class less gimped. Currently I playing with this (I am rr60+ so add 2 points to get HS):

RoR.builders - Witch Elf

IMO crit tactic and crit chance are essential for WE to work. But you need the crit chance. I did the math on that and you will get an average 0.44% dmg increase for every crit chance point you have (so Increased Pain is a 10% dmg increase at about 22% crit chance).

I didn't find any other way to get the burst I need. And the KD+AeE dmg+morale drain/boost from OYN is great.

It works for me in oRvR and SCs or even solo roams (but the only way a WE should roam is with another WE imo). For WB setup I loose Flanking and go for Close Combat.

I stopped using RA at some point as it is really unreliable. There are so many abilities in this game that break the channel that I rarely saw the whole RA going off.

And to answer your question. FP makes your AW (and other positional abilities) ignore positioning - so you will get the "ignore armor" effect from all sides. FP does not work for tactics.
Joining the diskussion since i recently started WE as well and having a blast. I'm currently 32/RR46 and am quite successfull with right tree until "masterful treachery" and playing with "sacrificial stab". I hit a really good spike in damage when i got my devastator set with good weapons (bolster i guess), but am since struggling since the bolster benefits are dwindling with every level.

Now i'd like to try a build with OYN but can't seem to understand where the burst is coming from. Now i open out of stealth (2 BL) > Heartseeker (1 BL) and spam AW until full BL and finish with Rupture. After that most panic and run so i fire some more AW and everyone besides tanks and healers usually die. With your recommended build i immediatly lose 2 BL for OYN and need way longer for full BL to finish with something. Adding to that OYN does way less damage then Heartseeker (or maybe i did test it too late while bolster was already dropping).

Would you mind giving some form of a rotation for the first attacks out of stealth? Some people use "Wracking Pains" to lower toughness i heared. Is that worth the GCD since the skill itself is quite mediocre damagewise.

Oh and i'm currently only interested in roaming. Tactics used are: Flanking, Strength, Increased Pain and Masterful Treachery


Cheers

Panso
Posts: 15

Re: Witch Elf

Post#4 » Fri May 15, 2020 4:42 pm

Chubbo wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:38 pm
Vilard wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:18 am
I was in similar situation. Lots of builds tested only to make the class less gimped. Currently I playing with this (I am rr60+ so add 2 points to get HS):

RoR.builders - Witch Elf

IMO crit tactic and crit chance are essential for WE to work. But you need the crit chance. I did the math on that and you will get an average 0.44% dmg increase for every crit chance point you have (so Increased Pain is a 10% dmg increase at about 22% crit chance).

I didn't find any other way to get the burst I need. And the KD+AeE dmg+morale drain/boost from OYN is great.

It works for me in oRvR and SCs or even solo roams (but the only way a WE should roam is with another WE imo). For WB setup I loose Flanking and go for Close Combat.

I stopped using RA at some point as it is really unreliable. There are so many abilities in this game that break the channel that I rarely saw the whole RA going off.

And to answer your question. FP makes your AW (and other positional abilities) ignore positioning - so you will get the "ignore armor" effect from all sides. FP does not work for tactics.
Joining the diskussion since i recently started WE as well and having a blast. I'm currently 32/RR46 and am quite successfull with right tree until "masterful treachery" and playing with "sacrificial stab". I hit a really good spike in damage when i got my devastator set with good weapons (bolster i guess), but am since struggling since the bolster benefits are dwindling with every level.

Now i'd like to try a build with OYN but can't seem to understand where the burst is coming from. Now i open out of stealth (2 BL) > Heartseeker (1 BL) and spam AW until full BL and finish with Rupture. After that most panic and run so i fire some more AW and everyone besides tanks and healers usually die. With your recommended build i immediatly lose 2 BL for OYN and need way longer for full BL to finish with something. Adding to that OYN does way less damage then Heartseeker (or maybe i did test it too late while bolster was already dropping).

Would you mind giving some form of a rotation for the first attacks out of stealth? Some people use "Wracking Pains" to lower toughness i heared. Is that worth the GCD since the skill itself is quite mediocre damagewise.

Oh and i'm currently only interested in roaming. Tactics used are: Flanking, Strength, Increased Pain and Masterful Treachery


Cheers
I think you will lose to much going with carnage spec before r40. I am in the same boat with my WE 35/48 and I will stick to treachery till 40. With carnage tree you must consider bleeding edge tactic, that will give all attacks 50% armor penetration for 3 sec, that will boost your damage over time.

But for roaming without all points available, treachery should be your best bet.

Sometimes I switch to aoe carnage spec in scenarios. Is a lot of fun going toe to toe with real aoe classes just with slice/oyk/m2 Spam and still getting kills. I don't think that it will be the same thing hitting r40, but with good eq in t3 it's a nice variety.
Panso 40/4x Zelot
Savory 40/4x Magus
Annot 40/6x WE

Chubbo
Posts: 4

Re: Witch Elf

Post#5 » Fri May 15, 2020 10:48 pm

Panso wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:42 pm
I think you will lose to much going with carnage spec before r40. I am in the same boat with my WE 35/48 and I will stick to treachery till 40. With carnage tree you must consider bleeding edge tactic, that will give all attacks 50% armor penetration for 3 sec, that will boost your damage over time.

But for roaming without all points available, treachery should be your best bet.

Sometimes I switch to aoe carnage spec in scenarios. Is a lot of fun going toe to toe with real aoe classes just with slice/oyk/m2 Spam and still getting kills. I don't think that it will be the same thing hitting r40, but with good eq in t3 it's a nice variety.
Ye that sounds reasonable. Getting a full build with more talent points would be nice. The only time carnage worked for me was when i used nothing but Ruthless Assault as a finisher with Bleeding Edge and Frenzied Mayhem and EoIP if offcd. But one interrupt or accidental jump (bad habits i guess) and so much damage is lost.

Vilard
Posts: 8

Re: Witch Elf

Post#6 » Fri May 15, 2020 11:10 pm

Chubbo wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:38 pm
Vilard wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:18 am
I was in similar situation. Lots of builds tested only to make the class less gimped. Currently I playing with this (I am rr60+ so add 2 points to get HS):

RoR.builders - Witch Elf

IMO crit tactic and crit chance are essential for WE to work. But you need the crit chance. I did the math on that and you will get an average 0.44% dmg increase for every crit chance point you have (so Increased Pain is a 10% dmg increase at about 22% crit chance).

I didn't find any other way to get the burst I need. And the KD+AeE dmg+morale drain/boost from OYN is great.

It works for me in oRvR and SCs or even solo roams (but the only way a WE should roam is with another WE imo). For WB setup I loose Flanking and go for Close Combat.

I stopped using RA at some point as it is really unreliable. There are so many abilities in this game that break the channel that I rarely saw the whole RA going off.

And to answer your question. FP makes your AW (and other positional abilities) ignore positioning - so you will get the "ignore armor" effect from all sides. FP does not work for tactics.
Joining the diskussion since i recently started WE as well and having a blast. I'm currently 32/RR46 and am quite successfull with right tree until "masterful treachery" and playing with "sacrificial stab". I hit a really good spike in damage when i got my devastator set with good weapons (bolster i guess), but am since struggling since the bolster benefits are dwindling with every level.

Now i'd like to try a build with OYN but can't seem to understand where the burst is coming from. Now i open out of stealth (2 BL) > Heartseeker (1 BL) and spam AW until full BL and finish with Rupture. After that most panic and run so i fire some more AW and everyone besides tanks and healers usually die. With your recommended build i immediatly lose 2 BL for OYN and need way longer for full BL to finish with something. Adding to that OYN does way less damage then Heartseeker (or maybe i did test it too late while bolster was already dropping).

Would you mind giving some form of a rotation for the first attacks out of stealth? Some people use "Wracking Pains" to lower toughness i heared. Is that worth the GCD since the skill itself is quite mediocre damagewise.

Oh and i'm currently only interested in roaming. Tactics used are: Flanking, Strength, Increased Pain and Masterful Treachery


Cheers
I am no expert on WE. Far froom it (rr68 to be exact).
OYK is a build I use in scs and WB. I do not do to much solo roaming lately. OYN is great for WBs ans it gives AoE presure morale drain, morale boost and a knockdown. In a WB setting you do not have to worry about stun immunity because you will be changing targets frequently and almost always knock someone down with either OYN or HS.

That said.

The burst comes from Slice with combination of Increased Pain and Bleeding Edge Tactic. Most of the damage just does not come from frenzies.
I open with OYN and go with AW fallowed by Pierce Armor, EoIP and Slice (adding Throat Slitter in rotation If BW/AM/WP) this combination +M1 is enough. If not then I have a problem. Fighting Tanks/WP I usually do not use M1 but wait for AP drain from M2 - remember OYN gives you a morale head start.

I do it like that because I do not like using more then one Frenzie. Just a playstyle thing.
But the other way to do it is (might be better for solo roams):

Get out of stealth (2BL), Open with HS(3BL), AW (4BL), TS/2nd AW (5BL) and go with Ruthless Assault (synergizes very well with Bleeding Edge). Followed by EoIP+Slice.
If you time TS with RA you should get the whole RA in. But it works only with BWs/AMs/WPs. Anything else will be out of stun and ready to use every defensive pun/knockdown/detaunt/pounce it has. RA in those cases is not an option. Puncture maybe? You would have to try (maybe I will to).

You can do this from lvl 37:

RoR.builders - Witch Elf

And add more dmg later on with Increased Pain if your crit chance is high enough or Mastrfull Tretchery (lvl 40). Or go with OYN at lvl 40 as an utility tool.

Cheers

Huurl
Posts: 15

Re: Witch Elf

Post#7 » Sat May 16, 2020 3:11 am

Interesting! I always loved OYK even on live and before the moral pumping but I was reluctant to set aside Brute Force, but regarding what you wrote I will give a try with Bleeding Edge (+Flanking, Increase pain, Taste of blood)...

Panso
Posts: 15

Re: Witch Elf

Post#8 » Sat May 16, 2020 5:36 am

Does RA trigger bleeding edge for itself? So first swing without armor penetration and the last 5 with?
Panso 40/4x Zelot
Savory 40/4x Magus
Annot 40/6x WE

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Sinisterror
Posts: 100

Re: Witch Elf

Post#9 » Sat May 16, 2020 6:07 am

Panso wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:36 am
Does RA trigger bleeding edge for itself? So first swing without armor penetration and the last 5 with?
RA triggers bleeding edge before the first hit and after the last hit so its up all time while casting RA and 3 sec after it. Sac Stab is probably awesome with bleeding edge cos 50 % more aa dmg and 50 % armour pene and if u can have onslaught set to get high enough crit get the crit dmg tactic also and u will do surprisingly lot of dmg as a lowbie welf.

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,5639,5604

This is good for solo roam, swap some diff tactics around to test what works for you. Full beastlord is good with whirling blades so you build frenzies very fast.
There is not a feeling, no intelligence
Not alone, nothing, but together both
as She presented He and His Will
of which expression everything are

"The heart of Shiva is the eye of Satan
The world without lies speaks with the mouth of the Devil"

Panso
Posts: 15

Re: Witch Elf

Post#10 » Sat May 16, 2020 6:36 am

Sinisterror wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:07 am
Panso wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:36 am
Does RA trigger bleeding edge for itself? So first swing without armor penetration and the last 5 with?
RA triggers bleeding edge before the first hit and after the last hit so its up all time while casting RA and 3 sec after it. Sac Stab is probably awesome with bleeding edge cos 50 % more aa dmg and 50 % armour pene and if u can have onslaught set to get high enough crit get the crit dmg tactic also and u will do surprisingly lot of dmg as a lowbie welf.

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,5639,5604

This is good for solo roam, swap some diff tactics around to test what works for you. Full beastlord is good with whirling blades so you build frenzies very fast.
OK thx for clarification. Does this work for all frenzies?
Or is RA special cause of its mechanic?
Panso 40/4x Zelot
Savory 40/4x Magus
Annot 40/6x WE

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