Recent Topics

Ads

WE 70+ vanq+ winnable fights?

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use
Your topic MUST start with your class name between hooks (IE : [Shaman] blablabla)
Sarnai
Posts: 150

Re: WE 70+ vanq+ winnable fights?

Post#31 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:15 pm

Zxul wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:18 pm
Seravajan wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:28 pm
One other issue on WE/WH is that most player can just run away from a WE/WH. I miss a melee snare or root on them.
Our Throwing Dagger snares just fine. And if needed, can use Feinted Positioning to insure it snares no matter the position.
My memory of the testing is a little fuzzy but I'm fairly certain FP doesn't proc the snare from the front, at least for Snap Shot.

To OP, WE/WH have the ability to kill anything in 1v1, but you have to spec specifically for it. No spec exists where you can sit and jump any class that rolls by if they are anything above average players. Pick what you want to hunt that day, spec specifically for that, and avoid everything else.
WH looking for gunbad left

Ads
VindicoAtrum
Posts: 55

Re: WE 70+ vanq+ winnable fights?

Post#32 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:10 pm

Sarnai wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:15 pm
To OP, WE/WH have the ability to kill anything in 1v1, but you have to spec specifically for it.
I'm sorry but I think this is horseshit. You can go full meme defense and a WP will still outlast you, an AM will still kite your AP-drained arse. The tanks will still survive more than long enough for help to arrive, and I'm not even convinced the def build would survive 1v1 anyway. Full meme def might give you a chance against WL/Slayer if they're stupid enough to stick around instead of realising they can just run off. You sacrifice so much damage for that build it's genuinely not far off meme status. Most players will figure out your damage is low, your parry and mitigation are high, realise you're meme def build and just leave. But hey, those 55 dmg throwing daggers will do the job...right?!

As an aside from that, I didn't make a WE to play a defensive shitstick. Imagine if the best build response for WL/Slayer was "yeah you'll just die if you try dps anything other than sorc, ranged squig or magus, you have to do meme def build to not get rolled"... They crying would drown this entire forum, but for some reason we're meant to accept that the assassin class... can't assassinate most things?

Waiting for the inevitable "git gud" variants :roll:

Akalukz
Posts: 869

Re: WE 70+ vanq+ winnable fights?

Post#33 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:47 pm

Mitzie wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:10 am
tommydgun wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:00 am
lol literally just had Secrets jump on me and knock me down and i died before standing... 8k dmg in 3 seconds with full armor talismans... great balance GG doesn't need nerfing don't worry dev team!!!! yay!!!! such fun much wow!!!!
He's in BiS gear and you were in Vanq, don't expect to win those fights. If you pick fights with people in full Sov then it's no wonder you keep losing. My WE is in Vanq as well and I have no issues soloing, just pick your fights. You have stealth, utilize it.
One would wonder with so many Devs/players saying Gear doesn't matter that much...yet when people complain about getting 8K in 3 sec, people say get better gear, don't expect to win. The power creep is almost as bad as live.
-= Agony =-

User avatar
KissShot
Posts: 97
Contact:

Re: WE 70+ vanq+ winnable fights?

Post#34 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:12 pm

tommydgun wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:17 pm
So now that I am 70+ vanq+ I have been roaming solo a lot to pick fights and test my limits. I've run every build out there: defensive, OYK, sac stabs, and witchbrew non defensive. First of all 6 piece vanquisher is EXTREMELY squishy and easy to be killed. But I was wondering: in a 1v1 what are WE supposed to be able to kill? This is my view below assuming offensive spec and not regen shenanigans.
Depends on your spec, you won't ever beat able to be every class but can spec to beat certain classes at a given time (as it should be imo). E.g., I can't solo some melee specs when in my ranked build, but could solo them in a 1v1 spec.
tommydgun wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:17 pm
Winnable: BW, engi, ranged SW, bad WHs, bad slayers, lowbies
Other fights:
white lion - jumps on you knocks you down and you die before standing
archemage - knocks you back and kites you to death
good WH - parries you for 12s and ripostes every attack
kotbs - laughs at you til you die or reinforcements come
SM - laughs at you til you die
aSW - knocks you down and you die before standing (also has 5k+ armor and laughs at all your damage)
warrior priest - lol
iron breaker - laughs at you til you die or reinforcements come
good slayer - wins the dps race because you are squishier
Your winnables are accurate for almost any WE build with general competence on your part.
WL - there are enough forum posts that describe what I would say here without even having to say it.
AM - run disrupt, easy kill on most AMs pending your AP lasting out/having AP pots.
WH - depends on who gets the KD and if they are running RB
KOBS - depends on the build - running 3 stacks of EB during a fight (doesn't tick off armor)? If not, start doing that.
SM - see above.
aSW - depends on who gets the first KD and if they crit. Armor doesn't mean as much to a WE/WH given something like FP and AW, tactics, etc.
WP - can always beat WP if you run parry spec with moral 1 rush.
IB - depends on builds, see KOBs. Running full parry + reposte/m1 rush via OYKs? Probably win most fights.
Slayer - it's not because you are squisher, it's because they can by-pass parry. For a Slayer the regen/absorb build probably better for 1v1, but I've never cared enough to try it.
tommydgun wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:17 pm
Anything I am missing? Are you all just running around in full defense meme WE builds or are you having success with more classes as a pure offensive WE and if so what build / armor and how are you beating the classes I listed under Other fights? I am getting pretty close to a re-roll here...
SS/MoM autoattack build, full armor pen RA build, offensive WB are the best builds in my time - defensive builds don't feel very "WE" to me. With Vanq, there should be few classes you can't put up a good try at. Are you timing your CDs? Have full uptime of 60s CDs? Running incoming heal debuff if attacking healer+tank/dps duos? Etc.
Last edited by KissShot on Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aezron
Posts: 20

Re: WE 70+ vanq+ winnable fights?

Post#35 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:44 pm

KissShot wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:12 pm
tommydgun wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:17 pm
So now that I am 70+ vanq+ I have been roaming solo a lot to pick fights and test my limits. I've run every build out there: defensive, OYK, sac stabs, and witchbrew non defensive. First of all 6 piece vanquisher is EXTREMELY squishy and easy to be killed. But I was wondering: in a 1v1 what are WE supposed to be able to kill? This is my view below assuming offensive spec and not regen shenanigans.
Depends on your spec, you won't ever be able to be every class but can spec to beat certain classes at a given time (as it should be imo). E.g., I can't solo some melee specs when in my ranked build, but could solo them in a 1v1 spec.
tommydgun wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:17 pm
Winnable: BW, engi, ranged SW, bad WHs, bad slayers, lowbies
Other fights:
white lion - jumps on you knocks you down and you die before standing
archemage - knocks you back and kites you to death
good WH - parries you for 12s and ripostes every attack
kotbs - laughs at you til you die or reinforcements come
SM - laughs at you til you die
aSW - knocks you down and you die before standing (also has 5k+ armor and laughs at all your damage)
warrior priest - lol
iron breaker - laughs at you til you die or reinforcements come
good slayer - wins the dps race because you are squishier
Your winnables are accurate for almost any WE build with general competence on your part.
WL - there are enough forum posts that describe what I would say here without even having to say it.
AM - run disrupt, easy kill on most AMs pending your AP lasting out/having AP pots.
WH - depends on who gets the KD and if they are running RB
KOBS - depends on the build - running 3 stacks of EB during a fight (doesn't tick off armor)? If not, start doing that.
SM - see above.
aSW - depends on who gets the first KD and if they crit. Armor doesn't mean as much to a WE/WH given something like FP and AW, tactics, etc.
WP - can always beat WP if you run parry spec with moral 1 rush.
IB - depends on builds, see KOBs. Running full parry + reposte/m1 rush via OYKs? Probably win most fights.
Slayer - it's not because you are squisher, it's because they can by-pass parry. For a Slayer the regen/absorb build probably better for 1v1, but I've never cared enough to try it.
tommydgun wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:17 pm
Anything I am missing? Are you all just running around in full defense meme WE builds or are you having success with more classes as a pure offensive WE and if so what build / armor and how are you beating the classes I listed under Other fights? I am getting pretty close to a re-roll here...
SS/MoM autoattack build, full armor pen RA build, offensive WB are the best builds in my time - defensive builds don't feel very "WE" to me. With Vanq, there should be few classes you can't put up a good try at. Are you timing your CDs? Have full uptime of 60s CDs? Running incoming heal debuff if attacking healer+tank/dps duos? Etc.
Just to clarify, your builds would be something like (below)?

SS/MoM:
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,6050,5611

RA armor pen:
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,2991,5639
Using WS talismans etc.

Offensive WB:
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,5601,5639
(or switch FM for ToB depending on preference)

Parry build:
??
I've tried building one, but haven't yet found a good one..
Also, "morale rush" meaning finishing off quickly with SN? Or CM (using parry build)?

User avatar
KissShot
Posts: 97
Contact:

Re: WE 70+ vanq+ winnable fights?

Post#36 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:31 pm

Aezron wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:44 pm
KissShot wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:12 pm
tommydgun wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:17 pm
So now that I am 70+ vanq+ I have been roaming solo a lot to pick fights and test my limits. I've run every build out there: defensive, OYK, sac stabs, and witchbrew non defensive. First of all 6 piece vanquisher is EXTREMELY squishy and easy to be killed. But I was wondering: in a 1v1 what are WE supposed to be able to kill? This is my view below assuming offensive spec and not regen shenanigans.
Depends on your spec, you won't ever be able to beat every class but can spec to beat certain classes at a given time (as it should be imo). E.g., I can't solo some melee specs when in my ranked build, but could solo them in a 1v1 spec.
tommydgun wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:17 pm
Winnable: BW, engi, ranged SW, bad WHs, bad slayers, lowbies
Other fights:
white lion - jumps on you knocks you down and you die before standing
archemage - knocks you back and kites you to death
good WH - parries you for 12s and ripostes every attack
kotbs - laughs at you til you die or reinforcements come
SM - laughs at you til you die
aSW - knocks you down and you die before standing (also has 5k+ armor and laughs at all your damage)
warrior priest - lol
iron breaker - laughs at you til you die or reinforcements come
good slayer - wins the dps race because you are squishier
Your winnables are accurate for almost any WE build with general competence on your part.
WL - there are enough forum posts that describe what I would say here without even having to say it.
AM - run disrupt, easy kill on most AMs pending your AP lasting out/having AP pots.
WH - depends on who gets the KD and if they are running RB
KOBS - depends on the build - running 3 stacks of EB during a fight (doesn't tick off armor)? If not, start doing that.
SM - see above.
aSW - depends on who gets the first KD and if they crit. Armor doesn't mean as much to a WE/WH given something like FP and AW, tactics, etc.
WP - can always beat WP if you run parry spec with moral 1 rush.
IB - depends on builds, see KOBs. Running full parry + reposte/m1 rush via OYKs? Probably win most fights.
Slayer - it's not because you are squisher, it's because they can by-pass parry. For a Slayer the regen/absorb build probably better for 1v1, but I've never cared enough to try it.
tommydgun wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:17 pm
Anything I am missing? Are you all just running around in full defense meme WE builds or are you having success with more classes as a pure offensive WE and if so what build / armor and how are you beating the classes I listed under Other fights? I am getting pretty close to a re-roll here...
SS/MoM autoattack build, full armor pen RA build, offensive WB are the best builds in my time - defensive builds don't feel very "WE" to me. With Vanq, there should be few classes you can't put up a good try at. Are you timing your CDs? Have full uptime of 60s CDs? Running incoming heal debuff if attacking healer+tank/dps duos? Etc.
Just to clarify, your builds would be something like (below)?

SS/MoM:
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,6050,5611

RA armor pen:
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,2991,5639
Using WS talismans etc.

Offensive WB:
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,5601,5639
(or switch FM for ToB depending on preference)

Parry build:
??
I've tried building one, but haven't yet found a good one..
Also, "morale rush" meaning finishing off quickly with SN? Or CM (using parry build)?
Flanking is not as great as you might be led to believe - opening on random people, sure. Leveling in oRvR solo, sure. Fighting any competent player, never (you won't get their sides/back). ToB or Sac Rewarded would be better alternatives almost always, in any build, in my and other's opinions. Frenzied mayhem isn't great either, at least in most match-ups - depends what you are going for (better for something like AOE OYKs build). Typical tactic setup if you assume use of BF is BF, IP and then either MoM (for SS), sac rewarded (one of the best def tactics in game, doesn't matter what your spec is), ToB (preferred over flanking for any "real" fight).

Moral rush is when you use OYKs as a primary finisher, use the KD almost immediately to get the moral pump, and proceed through the fight until you get m1(7 sec of parry). This is how you can beat "good" DOKs/WPs 1v1 duel arena or elsewhere, among other classes.

Aezron
Posts: 20

Re: WE 70+ vanq+ winnable fights?

Post#37 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:07 pm

KissShot wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:31 pm

Flanking is not as great as you might be led to believe - opening on random people, sure. Leveling in oRvR solo, sure. Fighting any competent player, never (you won't get their sides/back). ToB or Sac Rewarded would be better alternatives almost always, in any build, in my and other's opinions. Frenzied mayhem isn't great either, at least in most match-ups - depends what you are going for (better for something like AOE OYKs build). Typical tactic setup if you assume use of BF is BF, IP and then either MoM (for SS), sac rewarded (one of the best def tactics in game, doesn't matter what your spec is), ToB (preferred over flanking for any "real" fight).

Moral rush is when you use OYKs as a primary finisher, use the KD almost immediately to get the moral pump, and proceed through the fight until you get m1(7 sec of parry). This is how you can beat "good" DOKs/WPs 1v1 duel arena or elsewhere, among other classes.
Great insight, thanks!

Krima
Posts: 352

Re: WE 70+ vanq+ winnable fights?

Post#38 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:43 pm

Aezron wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:07 pm
KissShot wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:31 pm

Flanking is not as great as you might be led to believe - opening on random people, sure. Leveling in oRvR solo, sure. Fighting any competent player, never (you won't get their sides/back). ToB or Sac Rewarded would be better alternatives almost always, in any build, in my and other's opinions. Frenzied mayhem isn't great either, at least in most match-ups - depends what you are going for (better for something like AOE OYKs build). Typical tactic setup if you assume use of BF is BF, IP and then either MoM (for SS), sac rewarded (one of the best def tactics in game, doesn't matter what your spec is), ToB (preferred over flanking for any "real" fight).

Moral rush is when you use OYKs as a primary finisher, use the KD almost immediately to get the moral pump, and proceed through the fight until you get m1(7 sec of parry). This is how you can beat "good" DOKs/WPs 1v1 duel arena or elsewhere, among other classes.
Great insight, thanks!
TOB > Flanking mostly. You can always learn how to change tactics on the fly. I Use flanking versus all order healers/casters even slayers.
Tanks, whs, WLs TOB is my choice.
Krima RR 80
Playing Witch Elf only since Live :twisted:

Ads
sanctifi
Posts: 4

Re: WE 70+ vanq+ winnable fights?

Post#39 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:25 pm

I have a hard time keeping track of what does and does not stack. Does Masterful Treachery and Taste of Blood stack? What about Taste of Blood, Flanking and Masterful Treachery? What about Flanking and Taste of Blood?

Krima
Posts: 352

Re: WE 70+ vanq+ winnable fights?

Post#40 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:30 pm

sanctifi wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:25 pm
I have a hard time keeping track of what does and does not stack. Does Masterful Treachery and Taste of Blood stack? What about Taste of Blood, Flanking and Masterful Treachery? What about Flanking and Taste of Blood?

Yes.. all stack + the 5% from bloodlord weapon can add to it also.
all % dmg bonus stack.
Krima RR 80
Playing Witch Elf only since Live :twisted:

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests