Dok heal debuff vs wp one.

[Zxul]

There is a very similar thread to this here
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=41376

On a side note, In response to the original poster, I don't think the classes are meant to be 100% mirrored. They are both supposed to have their strengths and weaknesses, and each will have something the other doesn't. I think a lot of folks expect the classes to be exact mirrors sometimes. This isn't a response in favor of DOK, nor am I saying DOK is better than WP. I'm just saying that the classes in general were never meant to be exact duplicates of each other.

However what this has to do with wp heal debuff being significantly better in almost all aspects compared to dok one?

[xruptor]

There is a very similar thread to this here
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=41376

On a side note, In response to the original poster, I don't think the classes are meant to be 100% mirrored. They are both supposed to have their strengths and weaknesses, and each will have something the other doesn't. I think a lot of folks expect the classes to be exact mirrors sometimes. This isn't a response in favor of DOK, nor am I saying DOK is better than WP. I'm just saying that the classes in general were never meant to be exact duplicates of each other.

However what this has to do with wp heal debuff being significantly better in almost all aspects compared to dok one?

Exactly what I said. The classes aren't meant to be exact mirrors of each other. It's not copy and paste a class and then rename it to have the same abilities and debuffs as the others. It works both ways and I'm sure WP has stuff that is superior to something the DOK has. Another example? Why does Engineer have a healing keg ability and the Magus doesn't? In some ways people would consider that superior. Yet the Magus doesn't have any ability even remotely like that. Because the classes aren't meant to be exact mirrors of each other. They even share different tactics in some cases than the Engineer, but they are both turret classes. The same applies to WP and DOK and their abilities and tactics. The two classes are just not meant to be exact duplicates of each other. The DOK will be better in some aspects than the WP is and vice versa.

[Zxul]

There is a very similar thread to this here
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=41376

On a side note, In response to the original poster, I don't think the classes are meant to be 100% mirrored. They are both supposed to have their strengths and weaknesses, and each will have something the other doesn't. I think a lot of folks expect the classes to be exact mirrors sometimes. This isn't a response in favor of DOK, nor am I saying DOK is better than WP. I'm just saying that the classes in general were never meant to be exact duplicates of each other.

However what this has to do with wp heal debuff being significantly better in almost all aspects compared to dok one?

Exactly what I said. The classes aren't meant to be exact mirrors of each other. It's not copy and paste a class and then rename it to have the same abilities and debuffs as the others. It works both ways and I'm sure WP has stuff that is superior to something the DOK has. Another example? Why does Engineer have a healing keg ability and the Magus doesn't? In some ways people would consider that superior. Yet the Magus doesn't have any ability even remotely like that. Because the classes aren't meant to be exact mirrors of each other. They even share different tactics in some cases than the Engineer, but they are both turret classes. The same applies to WP and DOK and their abilities and tactics. The two classes are just not meant to be exact duplicates of each other. The DOK will be better in some aspects than the WP is and vice versa.

Mp sure has stuff that is superior to something the DOK has- the heal debuff, which is exactly the point of this thread.

And taking your specific example about magus and engi, magus has a 2.4 k self heal on 60 sec cd (Aegis), as well as absorb tactic (375 absorb on 3 sec cd). How about learning about classes before you post?

[xruptor]

Mp sure has stuff that is superior to something the DOK has- the heal debuff, which is exactly the point of this thread.

And taking your specific example about magus and engi, magus has a 2.4 k self heal on 60 sec cd (Aegis), as well as absorb tactic (375 absorb on 3 sec cd). How about learning about classes before you post?

You are still not grasping the point. The classes are not meant to be exact duplicates of each other. The keg mechanic is not the same as a self heal mechanic or a 60sec absorb mechanic. Yes they both heal but there are DIFFERENT. It's two absolutely completely different mechanics. Let me know if Magus as a deployable that has an AOE heal. Then get back to me. Like I said on multiple occasions. The classes are NOT meant to be exact duplicates of each other. Don't expect the DOK and WP to be the same.

[13eara]

WP Heal debuff is better than the DoKs heal debuff now. At least in my opinion.
WP in general are on whole better than doks with all of the changes made to the classes.

[Zxul]

Mp sure has stuff that is superior to something the DOK has- the heal debuff, which is exactly the point of this thread.

And taking your specific example about magus and engi, magus has a 2.4 k self heal on 60 sec cd (Aegis), as well as absorb tactic (375 absorb on 3 sec cd). How about learning about classes before you post?

You are still not grasping the point. The classes are not meant to be exact duplicates of each other. The keg mechanic is not the same as a self heal mechanic or a 60sec absorb mechanic. Yes they both heal but there are DIFFERENT. It's two absolutely completely different mechanics. Let me know if Magus as a deployable that has an AOE heal. Then get back to me. Like I said on multiple occasions. The classes are NOT meant to be exact duplicates of each other. Don't expect the DOK and WP to be the same.

That is because you have no point. Between wp and dok heals debuffs ain't different- wp one is superior in pretty much all aspects.

Unlike magus and engi, where engi keg might give aoe heal (party only, and very short range, for that matter), but unlike magus version is offers no fast burst recovery, and limits mobility. Like I said earlier, how about actually learning how classes work, before posting?

Especially "60sec absorb mechanic"- lol, do you have any basic idea about magus class?

[Gareul]

WP are not in a better spot DoKs still have better offensive utility to access yes they got nerfed prob bit to much but far from weak ive seen crazy dps DoKs seems like most of the complaints is haveing an easy ride for to long. Simple WP has always had st HD now DoK does as it should be with HD it just took awhile to get to DoKs HD.

The problem is not the HD being nerfed its a tactic issue wich dps WP and DoKs have a huge problem with make some proposals for that instead of complaining, start giving devs solutions to the tactic problem because the HD nerf is staying deal with it.

[Gareul]

Remove Bloodthirst merge it into Curse of Khaine, move Curse of Khaine to were Bloodthirst was then move Khaines Imbument to were Curse of Khaine use to be.

Remove Hastened Divinity tactic merge into Divine Justice, then remove the aura damage component lastly remove Endless Guilt and merge its affects into Divine Justice.

Giveing them both there own utility. And freeing up a tactic slot so both can have more then 1 build, maybe tweak Khaines imbument, DoKs already get allot more offensive attacks so it should not be as good as guilty soul but be viable enough to slot.

[Snoxx]

I play both dps WP and dps DoK.

While I'm very happy with the current WP healdebuff, I must say the DoK healdebuff is better.

Why?

Let's say you are a dps WP in a 6-man group (aka you got the social welfare spot, haha) and your job is to apply the healdebuff. You just debuffed the target, then your assistleader switches target, group asks "where is the healdebuff?!?". Your answer: "sorry, it's on the last target, skill is on cooldown, I'll try again in 10 seconds".

Needless to say, if your assisttrain switches targets and doesn't kill that target within 10 seconds, you have to switch to a new target anyway because after 10 seconds under pressure, your victim will have guard and the help of multiple healers.

And not to forget the WP healdebuff can be parried/blocked, which happens a lot.
Sure, the the DoK healdebuff can be parried/blocked as well, but it has more chances per time to be applied.

But the biggest advantage of the DoK healdebuff is that it's de-facto impossible to cleanse.
A dps DoK produces a crapload of debuffs on the target. Almost everything he does will cause at least one debuff on the target. With a bit luck, a single hit can even cause 3(!) debuffs at once. And your whole group has the CoC aura which causes a snare proc debuff.

So basically with a dps DoK in the group, two debuffs will be ALWAYS on the target:
- snare
- healdebuff
Along with a crapload of other debuffs. You can't cleanse them all - it's impossible.