WE- Ruthless Assault spec.

[Rumpel]

So "Armor Penetration" in getstats stacks with weapon skill armor penetration on your doll?
If this is the case, then Elixir of Insane Power should also stack with weapon skill because it gives the exact same "Armor Penetration" buff in getstats. That's awesome if true, but threads here say otherwise.

Yes i think so but you better test your self on dummies.

Here I did it out of interest.

Attached is me without 50% armor pen tactic, and then with 50% armor pen tactic.

As you can see the damage increases massively so its a flat 50% increase to armor pen (for testing purposes i took my armor off etc to make it clear). Note that the first hit of ruthless assault does not receive the bonus damage. Another side note to bare in mind is that auto attacks do not occur during ruthless assault as it is a channel.

.getstats command also shows that you receive 50% armor pen, not 1.5x your current armor pen.

Thats by some one else:

"After RA it is always AA, sometimes two. Last hit from RA, AA, AA, kiss, Wracking PAin tick, jagged edge, Slice. All in 1,5 sec. Huuuge amount of dmg."

[Bloodmasked]

I just did a quick test on the dummies.
Auto attack with Bleeding Edge + PA (weapon skill buff) = auto attack with just Bleeding Edge.

PA buff does not affect (or stack with) Bleeding Edge.

Does non-buff-based weapon skill (skill from equipment) affect Bleeding Edge?
I need to find some armor with weapon skill and no strength to test.

Your weapon skill has no affect on bleeding edge's bonus armor pen. Its probably best to get 1051 strength so your melee power is more useful (untested but I think thats how power works.)

[Rumpel]

I just did a quick test on the dummies.
Auto attack with Bleeding Edge + PA (weapon skill buff) = auto attack with just Bleeding Edge.

PA buff does not affect (or stack with) Bleeding Edge.

Does non-buff-based weapon skill (skill from equipment) affect Bleeding Edge?
I need to find some armor with weapon skill and no strength to test.

I think PA adds its weaponskill to your base armor penetration. For me, with PA, its showing a buff around 10% more base armor penetration.

[ctosterhout]

I just did a quick test on the dummies.
Auto attack with Bleeding Edge + PA (weapon skill buff) = auto attack with just Bleeding Edge.

PA buff does not affect (or stack with) Bleeding Edge.

Does non-buff-based weapon skill (skill from equipment) affect Bleeding Edge?
I need to find some armor with weapon skill and no strength to test.

Your weapon skill has no affect on bleeding edge's bonus armor pen. Its probably best to get 1051 strength so your melee power is more useful (untested but I think thats how power works.)

Yea, this is what I think. Bleeding Edge is the exact same buff as EoIP, except shorter duration with no cooldown.
Bleeding Edge becomes less effective the closer you get to 50% penetration from weapon skill.

[ctosterhout]

I just did a quick test on the dummies.
Auto attack with Bleeding Edge + PA (weapon skill buff) = auto attack with just Bleeding Edge.

PA buff does not affect (or stack with) Bleeding Edge.

Does non-buff-based weapon skill (skill from equipment) affect Bleeding Edge?
I need to find some armor with weapon skill and no strength to test.

I think PA adds its weaponskill to your base armor penetration. For me, with PA, its showing a buff around 10% more base armor penetration.

Yea, PA adds to weapon skill penetration. But while BE or EoIP is up, weapon skill penetration is meaningless (it's 50% regardless of how much weapon skill you have or don't have).

[Rumpel]

I just did a quick test on the dummies.
Auto attack with Bleeding Edge + PA (weapon skill buff) = auto attack with just Bleeding Edge.

PA buff does not affect (or stack with) Bleeding Edge.

Does non-buff-based weapon skill (skill from equipment) affect Bleeding Edge?
I need to find some armor with weapon skill and no strength to test.

I think PA adds its weaponskill to your base armor penetration. For me, with PA, its showing a buff around 10% more base armor penetration.

Yea, PA adds to weapon skill penetration. But while BE or EoIP is up, weapon skill penetration is meaningless (it's 50% regardless of how much weapon skill you have or don't have).

Ah, you mean for AA?

[ctosterhout]

I think PA adds its weaponskill to your base armor penetration. For me, with PA, its showing a buff around 10% more base armor penetration.

Yea, PA adds to weapon skill penetration. But while BE or EoIP is up, weapon skill penetration is meaningless (it's 50% regardless of how much weapon skill you have or don't have).

Ah, you mean for AA?

Sorry, I got a bit off-topic regarding Bleeding Edge.
I guess my final conclusion is that for people with low weapon skill, Bleeding Edge is great for RA. For people with high weapon skill (Vanq+BL+Gen+ a few talismans or group buffs), using Bleeding Edge is probably not worth it. This is contrary to what was said earlier in this thread.

[Bloodmasked]

I don't know how to calculate if 900 str 100 weaponskill or 800 str 200 weaponskill is better.

i would just create both builds and try hitting healers/dps in duel arena to compare. you can use renown trainer to get 120 stats to make easier comparison also.

your weaponskill doesnt affect how useful bleeding edge is tho, since the 50% is just a flat increase.

[Elemint]

Sorry, I got a bit off-topic regarding Bleeding Edge.
I guess my final conclusion is that for people with low weapon skill, Bleeding Edge is great for RA. For people with high weapon skill (Vanq+BL+Gen+ a few talismans or group buffs), using Bleeding Edge is probably not worth it. This is contrary to what was said earlier in this thread.

Bleeding Edge has peak value at 700 WS, or 50% arpen, since then with BE up you ignore armor and get reduced only by toughness

[Krima]

Yea, PA adds to weapon skill penetration. But while BE or EoIP is up, weapon skill penetration is meaningless (it's 50% regardless of how much weapon skill you have or don't have).

Ah, you mean for AA?

Sorry, I got a bit off-topic regarding Bleeding Edge.
I guess my final conclusion is that for people with low weapon skill, Bleeding Edge is great for RA. For people with high weapon skill (Vanq+BL+Gen+ a few talismans or group buffs), using Bleeding Edge is probably not worth it. This is contrary to what was said earlier in this thread.

Your conclusion is very wrong. Feel free to test everything on construct mob at IC.