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[Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 979

Re: [Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

Post#201 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:28 pm

Spoiler:
Darosh wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 5:15 pm
pfs2222 wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 8:59 am Coming back to 1H/shield dps Ironbreaker - especially on "how to get there". Is GnM needed ? Feels like it saved my a** a lot of times. I understood Oathbound is a must. Punishing knock as well. What about this then : Snb IB ?
Plus, what would be an OK outfit at 40/40, when conq, domi and beastlord is not (yet) available ? What talis , what weapons ? Mix sets to max toughness and wounds, like ruin+anni ? I got Vengeance axe and Stoneanvil shoield from epic quests, or better get the 34/34 sc stuff ?
Ruin/Anni/Merc mix-and-match, avoidance&-ctbc>wounds&initiative>toughness, imo.
SC weapons (lv39er, not 34er... not even as temporary solution ~ they are an utter waste of emblems)/gutslime/epic quest is well enough until Subjugator shield/lv45er SC mainhand.
I'd generally suggest you run atleast <some> initiative talis (terribad base on midgets, even with the changed formula you still want to have more initiative than stock; low-end gear like Anni/Merc/Ruin have very little if any), wounds (if you play in organized ORvR) and toughness.
If you run in a proper 6man you can go (alot) more glassy, especially with SnB ~ but you want reliable healer/non-sucidal and competent dps.
As to GnM... it's a roaming tool and essentially useless in just about any format that isn't roam, it needlessly drains grudges for fluff regen (i.e.: in every format but roam you'll... or should have a [reliable] healer slogging along).

You are better off dropping GnM for the base trispec and then pick stuff based on requirements/preferences, that is if you participate in bigger formats (>3/AAC) ~ for everything roam and niche +duo's etc it's golden.
I agree with your stat priorities but I do have a few questions still regarding stat balance for guard bot IBs:

(1) What amount of toughness should I reach? I have 860 unbuffed right now but I worry that I am over-using toughness talis. I have 9.2 k wounds but think I may want to try for 10k so that conq proc or WP buff can take me to insane levels.

(2) How much initiative? I was using rr points to get to 260 ini (unbuffed) w/ oathbound build and 0% to be crit (but I still feel like WEs and mdps with high levels of crit& still crit me all the time). Now I have put those 10 rr points into avoidance and run 230 ini with 300 when oathbound is up.

(3) How much armor? I have been running with 4k in conq/overlord/ Beast Lord chest (or imperator whatever the def set is called), and genesis.I could run 4.2k with WI jewels and buff to 5k with guarded attack, but I like genesis toughness and -chance to be crit. I am trying to get conq chest so I can go full conq mixed with the two overlord pieces and I can't imagine a way to get more armor than that.

(4) Resists: I am always slotting little in the way of resists bc I expect RP or AM buff but in PUG grps those are less than guaranteed I am realizing. I have recently been running the 280 (or 250?) spirit resist pot or the 180 resists liniments. I used to slot WI but I feel as though the raw stats boost from genesis is just too hard to pass up. Am I wrong here, is WI top tier jewels for def tanks? I have been using the BL cloak for ages because of the talis slot, is there a better one out there?
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/80) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: [Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

Post#202 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:15 pm

Spoiler:
CountTalabecland wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:28 pm
Spoiler:
Darosh wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 5:15 pm
pfs2222 wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 8:59 am Coming back to 1H/shield dps Ironbreaker - especially on "how to get there". Is GnM needed ? Feels like it saved my a** a lot of times. I understood Oathbound is a must. Punishing knock as well. What about this then : Snb IB ?
Plus, what would be an OK outfit at 40/40, when conq, domi and beastlord is not (yet) available ? What talis , what weapons ? Mix sets to max toughness and wounds, like ruin+anni ? I got Vengeance axe and Stoneanvil shoield from epic quests, or better get the 34/34 sc stuff ?
Ruin/Anni/Merc mix-and-match, avoidance&-ctbc>wounds&initiative>toughness, imo.
SC weapons (lv39er, not 34er... not even as temporary solution ~ they are an utter waste of emblems)/gutslime/epic quest is well enough until Subjugator shield/lv45er SC mainhand.
I'd generally suggest you run atleast <some> initiative talis (terribad base on midgets, even with the changed formula you still want to have more initiative than stock; low-end gear like Anni/Merc/Ruin have very little if any), wounds (if you play in organized ORvR) and toughness.
If you run in a proper 6man you can go (alot) more glassy, especially with SnB ~ but you want reliable healer/non-sucidal and competent dps.
As to GnM... it's a roaming tool and essentially useless in just about any format that isn't roam, it needlessly drains grudges for fluff regen (i.e.: in every format but roam you'll... or should have a [reliable] healer slogging along).

You are better off dropping GnM for the base trispec and then pick stuff based on requirements/preferences, that is if you participate in bigger formats (>3/AAC) ~ for everything roam and niche +duo's etc it's golden.
I agree with your stat priorities but I do have a few questions still regarding stat balance for guard bot IBs:

(1) What amount of toughness should I reach? I have 860 unbuffed right now but I worry that I am over-using toughness talis. I have 9.2 k wounds but think I may want to try for 10k so that conq proc or WP buff can take me to insane levels.

(2) How much initiative? I was using rr points to get to 260 ini (unbuffed) w/ oathbound build and 0% to be crit (but I still feel like WEs and mdps with high levels of crit& still crit me all the time). Now I have put those 10 rr points into avoidance and run 230 ini with 300 when oathbound is up.

(3) How much armor? I have been running with 4k in conq/overlord/ Beast Lord chest (or imperator whatever the def set is called), and genesis.I could run 4.2k with WI jewels and buff to 5k with guarded attack, but I like genesis toughness and -chance to be crit. I am trying to get conq chest so I can go full conq mixed with the two overlord pieces and I can't imagine a way to get more armor than that.

(4) Resists: I am always slotting little in the way of resists bc I expect RP or AM buff but in PUG grps those are less than guaranteed I am realizing. I have recently been running the 280 (or 250?) spirit resist pot or the 180 resists liniments. I used to slot WI but I feel as though the raw stats boost from genesis is just too hard to pass up. Am I wrong here, is WI top tier jewels for def tanks? I have been using the BL cloak for ages because of the talis slot, is there a better one out there?
you can expect res debuff too from enemy, not just res buff from those classes, usually with a res buff you just need tome jewerly (impervious wind set) and 2 tali, most likely spi , can also go as far as put 1 in ele if magus are that scary from havoc mastery but im not sure, i know volgo (the one with all those nice video of ib) use them too at least this is what i red on forum once.

Ultimately it depend from group comp for res, try find your balance, expect debuff on spi and ele res by about 340-370 tought...so it depend on you how you wanna balance your char vs em. For exemple expect debuff from chosen around 180 to all ress so at least capped when that debuff happen, and better corp debuff is super rare (only BO?), so major debuff are just ele and spi for orders.
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CountTalabecland
Posts: 979

Re: [Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

Post#203 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:55 pm

Tesq wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:15 pm
Spoiler:
CountTalabecland wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:28 pm
Spoiler:
Darosh wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 5:15 pm

Ruin/Anni/Merc mix-and-match, avoidance&-ctbc>wounds&initiative>toughness, imo.
SC weapons (lv39er, not 34er... not even as temporary solution ~ they are an utter waste of emblems)/gutslime/epic quest is well enough until Subjugator shield/lv45er SC mainhand.
I'd generally suggest you run atleast <some> initiative talis (terribad base on midgets, even with the changed formula you still want to have more initiative than stock; low-end gear like Anni/Merc/Ruin have very little if any), wounds (if you play in organized ORvR) and toughness.
If you run in a proper 6man you can go (alot) more glassy, especially with SnB ~ but you want reliable healer/non-sucidal and competent dps.
As to GnM... it's a roaming tool and essentially useless in just about any format that isn't roam, it needlessly drains grudges for fluff regen (i.e.: in every format but roam you'll... or should have a [reliable] healer slogging along).

You are better off dropping GnM for the base trispec and then pick stuff based on requirements/preferences, that is if you participate in bigger formats (>3/AAC) ~ for everything roam and niche +duo's etc it's golden.
I agree with your stat priorities but I do have a few questions still regarding stat balance for guard bot IBs:

(1) What amount of toughness should I reach? I have 860 unbuffed right now but I worry that I am over-using toughness talis. I have 9.2 k wounds but think I may want to try for 10k so that conq proc or WP buff can take me to insane levels.

(2) How much initiative? I was using rr points to get to 260 ini (unbuffed) w/ oathbound build and 0% to be crit (but I still feel like WEs and mdps with high levels of crit& still crit me all the time). Now I have put those 10 rr points into avoidance and run 230 ini with 300 when oathbound is up.

(3) How much armor? I have been running with 4k in conq/overlord/ Beast Lord chest (or imperator whatever the def set is called), and genesis.I could run 4.2k with WI jewels and buff to 5k with guarded attack, but I like genesis toughness and -chance to be crit. I am trying to get conq chest so I can go full conq mixed with the two overlord pieces and I can't imagine a way to get more armor than that.

(4) Resists: I am always slotting little in the way of resists bc I expect RP or AM buff but in PUG grps those are less than guaranteed I am realizing. I have recently been running the 280 (or 250?) spirit resist pot or the 180 resists liniments. I used to slot WI but I feel as though the raw stats boost from genesis is just too hard to pass up. Am I wrong here, is WI top tier jewels for def tanks? I have been using the BL cloak for ages because of the talis slot, is there a better one out there?
you can expect res debuff too from enemy, not just res buff from those classes, usually with a res buff you just need tome jewerly (impervious wind set) and 2 tali, most likely spi , can also go as far as put 1 in ele if magus are that scary from havoc mastery but im not sure, i know volgo (the one with all those nice video of ib) use them too at least this is what i red on forum once.

Ultimately it depend from group comp for res, try find your balance, expect debuff on spi and ele res by about 340-370 tought...so it depend on you how you wanna balance your char vs em. For exemple expect debuff from chosen around 180 to all ress so at least capped when that debuff happen, and better corp debuff is super rare (only BO?), so major debuff are just ele and spi for orders.
I see, that makes sense. I know IB as a class fairly well but I am lacking on game wide class abilities so I appreciate the advice. It seems like WI would be the only way to buff up those rookie base resist numbers for spirit and ele (though as a BT I don't lack for Engi buffs).
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/80) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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warislove
Posts: 190

Re: [Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

Post#204 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:58 pm

thing that helps me the most playing my IB is booze, stats are secondary

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Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1197

Re: [Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

Post#205 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:46 pm

CountTalabecland wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:28 pm
Spoiler:
I agree with your stat priorities but I do have a few questions still regarding stat balance for guard bot IBs:

(1) What amount of toughness should I reach? I have 860 unbuffed right now but I worry that I am over-using toughness talis. I have 9.2 k wounds but think I may want to try for 10k so that conq proc or WP buff can take me to insane levels.

(2) How much initiative? I was using rr points to get to 260 ini (unbuffed) w/ oathbound build and 0% to be crit (but I still feel like WEs and mdps with high levels of crit& still crit me all the time). Now I have put those 10 rr points into avoidance and run 230 ini with 300 when oathbound is up.

(3) How much armor? I have been running with 4k in conq/overlord/ Beast Lord chest (or imperator whatever the def set is called), and genesis.I could run 4.2k with WI jewels and buff to 5k with guarded attack, but I like genesis toughness and -chance to be crit. I am trying to get conq chest so I can go full conq mixed with the two overlord pieces and I can't imagine a way to get more armor than that.

(4) Resists: I am always slotting little in the way of resists bc I expect RP or AM buff but in PUG grps those are less than guaranteed I am realizing. I have recently been running the 280 (or 250?) spirit resist pot or the 180 resists liniments. I used to slot WI but I feel as though the raw stats boost from genesis is just too hard to pass up. Am I wrong here, is WI top tier jewels for def tanks? I have been using the BL cloak for ages because of the talis slot, is there a better one out there?
Lemme give you <my> minimum go-to-values for the stats you mention, note: ultimately you gotta get a feeling for the class and it's limits ~ also your weaknesses, if you are still a bit rough on buffrotations or any other mechanic, you might wanna work around that with your spec.

Toughness: bare minimum of ~600 unbuffed;
Initiative: bare minimum ~250 unbuffed; i.e. your Oathbound can be shattered and you might lack the GCDs to reapply it (e.g.: important CC > buff).
Armor: bare minimum of ~4k buffed; either armor pot + x, or spirit resi pot + x + Guarded Attack, depends on how well you can manage your GCDs.
Resists: SNB, block stack: bare minimum of ~500 unbuffed; SNB, without sufficient block stack/2h: essentially as close to softcap as possible through whatever means.

-ctbc (static) + ini = wounds > avoidance (+ positioning) >= toughness, resis, armor

I for one am running semi-to-super deftard guardbot (depending on situation, mostly for super glasstard slayerbots) with (all things .getstats) max block stack (30% trifecta, 40% full deftard ~ working on 46%, gieef seals)*, roughly 280ish ini unbuffed (0% ctbc), 850ish wounds (unbuffed), ~800ish toughness (buffed, kotbs/VS), ~4k armor (buffed; GA), 600-700 resis (buffed; SaS, Pot or AM/KotBs), with ele lacking behind a tad)... max rdps/mdps avoidance stack through RR with rest invested into -ctbc (FS) which alltogether goes very well with Oathbound, HtL, Runic Shield, and Kneecapper - by extension my CC - as active means of mitigation, aswell as SOTS as dwarfish tactical nuke Dwarf master race! Hail volgo! ; swapping my tactics depending on engagements/format and from resis pot to armor/-ctbc+toughness lini...if there is nothing in a dress to fight.
Unless I am being properly assisted on, morale bombed in ORvR, Champions Challenged in a very very bad spot, don't have healers or run into a green tide that knows how to use DDB ~ I can manage just fine (take myself out of most equations [besides DDB/Magus rotations/huge sample size]; better AP + GCD management of my healers = opportunity for a more glassy guardee; more uncontested utility, luv muh toolkit) even with weak spots in my resis.

Then however, I am RR70 and permanently tampering with my setup... still waiting for a 2h Subjugator to roll out a(nother) troll spec. I am also tempted to run full glasstard SNB for science ~

Keep in mind, you can swap out gear and tactic sets on the fly; you'll have multiple conq sets etc in due time, so you'll have plenty of opportunity to set up fancy loadout.

*Block:
Spoiler:
RR: 10%
SC45 Shield: 2%
Gunbad Jewelry: 2%
Genesis: 3%
Bulwark: 2%
Guardian: 1%
Conq: 3%, 5%
Ravack Cloak: 2%
= 30% Trifecta (Parry,Crit,EA,RS,oHD, x, ...)
Shield Mastery: 10%
= 40% Full Deftard (SM,Parry,EA,RS,oHD, x, ... + GnM if I feel like queuing pug SCs and don't want to get rekt by the loaded dice)

RR: 10%
SC45 Shield: 2%
Gunbad Jewelry: 2%
Genesis: 3%
Bulwark: 2%
Guardian: 1%
Conq: 3%
Ravack Cloak: 2%
Shield Mastery: 10%
Overlord Proc: 7%
Brigand belt: 2%
Gunbad Gloves: 2%
= 46%

Note: If anyone should know the current block formula that works in block rating, please give a shout.

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Paxsanarion
Posts: 302

Re: [Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

Post#206 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:50 am

Sorry for the necro ......I am working on a snb Ironbreaker and I am loving the play style. It’s just so much fun. Love the lore in Warhammer and dwarfs especially. This thread has great information and I enjoyed the last post here by Darosh.....is this info for the most part still applicable as far as stat choices and builds for snb IB in the current state of the game?
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abezverkhiy
Posts: 551

Re: [Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

Post#207 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:29 pm

Paxsanarion wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:50 am Sorry for the necro ......I am working on a snb Ironbreaker and I am loving the play style. It’s just so much fun. Love the lore in Warhammer and dwarfs especially. This thread has great information and I enjoyed the last post here by Darosh.....is this info for the most part still applicable as far as stat choices and builds for snb IB in the current state of the game?
Pretty much. I would downgrade role of wounds but not by much. They nerfed morale nukes and wounds was the only solution against them.

Also, check if armir pot stacks with Guarded Attack, it may not, cannot remember.
KingSchultz WH, Valknutt WP, Glendhu ENG, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL

My WH guide: viewtopic.php?t=46354

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Parallels66
Posts: 67

Re: [Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

Post#208 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:04 pm

abezverkhiy wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:29 pm
Paxsanarion wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:50 am Sorry for the necro ......I am working on a snb Ironbreaker and I am loving the play style. It’s just so much fun. Love the lore in Warhammer and dwarfs especially. This thread has great information and I enjoyed the last post here by Darosh.....is this info for the most part still applicable as far as stat choices and builds for snb IB in the current state of the game?
Pretty much. I would downgrade role of wounds but not by much. They nerfed morale nukes and wounds was the only solution against them.

Also, check if armir pot stacks with Guarded Attack, it may not, cannot remember.
armor pots DO NOT stack with guarded attack and id value toughness alot more now, i have 10k hp, 1049 unbuffed toughness currently on my IB
Skargraive the Chosen - [Unreal]

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Paxsanarion
Posts: 302

Re: [Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

Post#209 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:04 pm

Thank you for the input ....good to know! Trying to make the best snb IB I can....lots of info out there just hard to know what the latest and greatest is :-)
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abezverkhiy
Posts: 551

Re: [Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

Post#210 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:26 pm

Parallels66 wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:04 pm armor pots DO NOT stack with guarded attack and id value toughness alot more now, i have 10k hp, 1049 unbuffed toughness currently on my IB
Right, now I remember. I spotted this while levelled my IB and switched from armor pot to spirit one, added a couple of ele talis and used Stubborn as Stone often- all of these gave me max magic resistances. Magic resistance is often overlooked which is stupid as many classes go for non-physical damage. You can see here a long trail of tears after recent nerf of chosen and kotbs when they lost their magical damage tactics.
KingSchultz WH, Valknutt WP, Glendhu ENG, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL

My WH guide: viewtopic.php?t=46354

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