[Ironbreaker] The Crucible: Class discussion and guides

[GodlessCrom]

One obvious one would be making Rising Anger baseline IMO. I almost always end up taking it cuz its so useful to have a reliable method of building Grudge at the beginning of fights, or when you and your oathfriend arent taking damage. Would then mirror Black Guard mechanic, whom have Rising Anger effect baseline in addition to Oathfriend. Though, they may not build Hate on self hit.

Either way, IMO both mechanics should be mirrored.

Wouldnt mind seeing Oath of Vengeance reworked to include Guarded Attack or Inspiring Attack. Small range aoe armor buff or strength/willpower buff would be worth it.

[Nefarian78]

One obvious one would be making Rising Anger baseline IMO. I almost always end up taking it cuz its so useful to have a reliable method of building Grudge at the beginning of fights, or when you and your oathfriend arent taking damage. Would then mirror Black Guard mechanic, whom have Rising Anger effect baseline in addition to Oathfriend. Though, they may not build Hate on self hit.

Either way, IMO both mechanics should be mirrored.

Wouldnt mind seeing Oath of Vengeance reworked to include Guarded Attack or Inspiring Attack. Small range aoe armor buff or strength/willpower buff would be worth it.

Making Rising Anger baseline would put the class miles ahead of his mirror, all you need to do to have a steady supply of grudges is to switch Oathfriend to the correct target. It's that simple.

Besides, you hardly need Rising Anger if you're running a SnB build. You only need it if you're running a 2h, which (in my experience) spends much more grudges compared to SnB.

[GodlessCrom]

Meh, BG has Enraged Beating, which provides a good source of hate generation, is low in the tree, and provides more damage than Grudgeborn Fury in the bargain. BG has very little trouble maintaining 100 Hate, even without DP.

Ironbreaker with Rising Anger baseline wouldnt be "miles ahead" of its mirror, thats some ridiculous hyperbole. I think both classes should have the same mechanic, i.e. they build grudge/hate off Oathfriend, off being hit, and off hitting. Might have to adjust the values a bit (perhaps 3 grudge/hate per hit rather than 5), but its a relatively minor QoL change, not a gamebreaker.

[Eathisword]

RA base will never happen. I proposed it like 6 months ago and it was met with a flamming rage of OMG OP... Volgo wants IB even more OP.

Then i dont think the issue is lacking good tactic. We alredy have too many good ones. Its a problem. IB got good buffs tough: runic shield got fixed and SaS now procs of melee magic. Just wait. They keep nerfing SM and knight and our day will come!

[GodlessCrom]

Oh yeah I forgot. That thread was hilarious. An impressive amount of salt was mined, to be sure.

IMO we just need Grudgeborn Fury to be worth using and for Knight auras to be nerfed, and we will then be meta again. Honestly, just knight aura nerf would do it, GBF is probably too high in Vengeance to be taken over stuff in Brotherhood for either solo roam or group play but god damn it I just want it to be good so I can hit stuff hard(er). If Slayer/WH becomes a thing again, or double slayer, we will also see IB become more popular.

I have seen a decent number of IBs recently though, far more than I remember. So I think the class is in a good place. All the changes I would make are more "improve this terrible thing to open up more spec options" and less "make us viable."

[Eathisword]

Hum... double slayers... maybe for Christmas xD

[Nefarian78]

Oh yeah I forgot. That thread was hilarious. An impressive amount of salt was mined, to be sure.

IMO we just need Grudgeborn Fury to be worth using and for Knight auras to be nerfed, and we will then be meta again. Honestly, just knight aura nerf would do it, GBF is probably too high in Vengeance to be taken over stuff in Brotherhood for either solo roam or group play but god damn it I just want it to be good so I can hit stuff hard(er). If Slayer/WH becomes a thing again, or double slayer, we will also see IB become more popular.

I have seen a decent number of IBs recently though, far more than I remember. So I think the class is in a good place. All the changes I would make are more "improve this terrible thing to open up more spec options" and less "make us viable."

The issue with Grudgeborn Fury is that it's generally better to use 2 Heavy Blows instead of channeling GF for 3s. Heavy Blow in itself hits as hard as one GBF swing, the DoT deals incredible damage and you can't interrupt Heavy Blow. Sure, you crit less, but the DoT damage is simply better to the crit. Another issue is the 13pts investment required into the tree while Cave-in requires 9.

Imo, switching Rune Etched Axe and Grudgeborn Fury grudge effects should make the skill much more interesting and worth taking.

[GodlessCrom]

It also has incredibly low base damage. Penril tested all the tank channels, and GBF hit lower than all of them except Relentless, and Relentless does spirit damage now with the tactic (which all 2h Chosen use anyways) so it definitely hits harder now.

I agree on the armor ignore property: IB already has 25% crit increase from Sweet Revenge and Ancestor's Fury (presumably you will use those if you spec GBF), not to mention crit from weapons/kotbs aura, etc. I would probably raise the base damage a little and add the armor ignore feature, or raise the base damage by a moderate amount and keep the crit effect.

Heavy Blow rocks as well, and IB can get some decent timestamp burst with all your DoT's ticking+AA+Earthshatter.

[Aehnur]

If Slayer/WH becomes a thing again, or double slayer, we will also see IB become more popular.

BT runs 2 IB 2 SL 2 RP parties when possible, and i have to say those are pretty fun and effective to play. Need some coordination though.

[zwerrie]

im thinking about increasing the spectrum of viable tactics to choose from, so we have more variation.
on top of my mind is to rework `overprotective` from the 2hand tree

1: up the damage
2: u gain x (3) additional grudge when ur friend is attacked
3: 25% to glare --> taunt the target dmg increase from IB (10/20 % )

We should be able to get a nice proposal for the balance forum without making things too overpowered. all i want is to have more ways to spec.

discuss! Ironbreakers only