yes not being friend of it is one part why the trees exist, they should be able to cater differentplaysytels, but turret playstyle was never mant to be mobile. And if turrets are currently suhc a must have then they are designed badly. The more a specific tactic is mandatory, the more will builds be made supporting it. Abut then a class will have it's role defined by this.Karast wrote:That sounds good Penril but it wouldn't really work.Penril wrote:I have a question to all experienced Engies.
If Engie is supposed to be a stationary DPS, wouldnt it make more sense if the turret buffed his survivability instead of his damage? Like improving his armor/toughness/whatever. I mean, a DPS buff is useless if you are forced to constanly kite as soon as a mdps jumps you.
Assuming they get a proper armor/toughness buff from the turret, and Guard from a tank, they would be able to remain stationary while applying their dots/debuffs (Coordinated Fire) and then burst with Snipe/M2 or whatever the hell Engies do when trying to burst.
Wouldnt it make more sense for a "stationary" dps class? Or not?
This is because unless if you are tinker spamming blunderbuss and a few aoe dots, you cannot dps under pressure.
Set back kills you as a rifle engi, and even as grenade with firebomb, it still seriously hurts you. A few tanks and Mdps on you and you won't be able to do anything. Dot's alone do not give enough pressure, and cast / channels become useless with setback.
It is a little better in T4, but not by much. It would help tinker melee engi's, and it might work if you want to sit in napalm on a point, but overall it doesn't help.
It is pretty easy to tell I am not a fan of stationary engi. It is not the way I have played it traditionally, because it has always been a catch 22.
If you kite you can't dps, if you have guard and defensive stats you can't dps due to setback.
IMO, one of the worst changes they ever did was getting rid of our setback tactic, and putting in ES.
Now comes the problematc part, when this role is defined and inferior to other classes changes will often try to push this role into competitive points by adjusting what it lacks. And this often redefines the roles, takign away the classes characteristic. But instead the original role should be buffed to a competitve degree and keeping the style. But thats often harder than simply adding that what is lacking and still working in another class.
I don't think an entire overhaul is needed, the grenadier path is very fine. The rifle path lacks a bit of punch through armor. The tinkerer path has good ideas but was simply not focussed enough on the turrets, in fact the turrets are too mch stand alone supporting all pathes too much. The tinkerer path is heaviyl based on skills of short range, which means the engineer currently has to run around to make use of that. But instead choosing this path should force the opponent to come to the engineerbecaue of him being a threat in this state. Similar to how healers are a key target to weaken the opponents. Also it should support the team in a way so that they want to stick closer to the engineer with a tinkerer career. The keg is a good thing as it does provide a bit of a source of heal thats nice to have around. Same for the AP regeneration tactic. But this tactic feels a bit too strong and too early in the tree so it can be paired too easily with other trees. And the top morale 4 skill should be entirely different and less based on DPS than more of a seriously buffed version of Armored Plating providing a well deployed buff for the team.Penril wrote:Well, i think we all agree that what engie/magus need is a complete overhaul of their mechanic.
And i was only giving those as examples so you got what i meant.
So true, the makes of a class should be the Career choices and tactics should be the goodies, not the other way around.Karast wrote:Yeah, when the balance forums open up, and this eventually comes up as a discussion topic. I think it is going to be a hard one, but I look forward to it.
But overall class mechanics aside. I still feel that low hanging fruit like horrible tactics / abilities, and big multi class issues like armor values, will be more important.
It is shocking sometimes how 1-2 tactics or abilities can make or break a class and spec.