[Engineer] [Poll] Fixing the three worst tactics for T4

[Glorian]

This thread poses as a thinktank for the current Engineer Tactics.


Instead of thinking how to increase the generell idea of how the Engineer Class can be changed to be competitive in T4 we look upon the least used tactics which are more or less barren land at the moment.

Also instead of looking at the medium tactics where some players think they are ok while others think they are great we look upon the obviously worst tactics where most players can agree that they aren’t used at all.

So to keep this Thread constructive, please say to what Tactic you are posting and what your opinion on the case is.

Let’s start:

Bandolier – Path of Grenadier
All of your Path of the Grenadier abilities cost 35% fewer action points.

Quick Reloader – Path of the Rifleman
All of your Path of the Rifleman abilities cost 35% fewer action points.

Case: Bandolier and Quick Reloader are actually the same Tactic for each Tree. From my personal Experience though the Grenadier runs very fast out of Action points if he concentrates on Acid Bobs and Firebomb on Single Target. While the tinkerer Tactic: Extra Ammo is superior to both as it restores AP while near the turret for the Engineer and everyone on 30 feet range. And it can be obtained for 4 mastery points, even if you are not a real Tinkerer. Another solution might be Clever Recovery which is a Core Tactic, which restores AP if you miss.

Also the both tactics are the pinnacle of the mastery trees tactics wise. And they don’t feel like that.

Solution:
Tbd.


Reinforced Casing – Core Ability
Adds 160 Wounds to your turrets.

Case:
As Karast has said, Turret Survivability is not a problem. It does so minimal damage that if he stands a little longer does no difference. The sole purpose of the turret is to give Damage Boost and Tactics to work with. So if my turret dies a lot I would simply take Well-Oiled Machine and instacast him back. Also Well-Oiled Machine is far better in being a mobile Engi.

Solution:
Tbd.

[Glorian]

Answering my own Thread:
Bandolier and Quick Reloader:
Lets look at the other careers.
SW and SH have both times 2 tactics which reduce Action points which have the same wording.
And one Range increase tactic for their short Range Trees.

The Magus has the same tactic which is also at the same position like Extra Ammo.
But instead of Ap recovery on its trees it has there a +15% crit increase for that tree.

Suggested Sollution for Quick Reloader:
Instead of thinking some new, yet to implemented tactics lets see what the other 3 brother classes (SW, SH, MA) have and what may be swapped.

[Gobtar]

You can't have serious balance discussions until Tier 4 is launched and the balance thread is open. I will be happy to give you my thoughts once T4 hits.

[Glorian]

Correct.
But these three tactics are krut in T3 and will be in T4 too.
Also T4 is here measured in weeks and not month. And I want to have some arguments ready by then.

[Gobtar]

Not trying to be a jerk, (comes naturally I guess)...you prefaced the subject as for tier 4 and a "balance discussion", and all balance discussions will be ignored until tier 4 hits. Anything that effects tier 3 will affect tier 4 too. My logic was like yours, that lets get the ball rolling and brains storm until we have a solid foundation for a balance discussion...but I been subtlely told that it's best to wait till Tier 4 hits regardless. Do with that knowledge as you will.

[Glorian]

I'm with you and have also participated in some of the endless balance Threads. Which all are meaningless if they are not done constructively in the soon to open balance threads.
But I want to start a Brainstorming thread on the Engineer tactics.

I accept your abstinence from this endeavour. No offence intended.

[Jaycub]

@Gobtar I'm not gonna let my dreams be dreams!

Spoiler:

Quick Reloader could be changed to a tactic based armor debuff (stacks with abilities), this could make engineer relevant in smaller scale fighting.

It could be a mirror of the marauders piercing bite (any ability that requires a gun ignores 50% of the targets armor)

The new tactic whatever it is should be named "Phosphorus Shells" and that 13 point ability that is awful and has no business even being in the rifleman tree can be removed from the game and make way for a real rifleman ability.

[Karast]

Suggestions for T4 are secondary to the original aim, which is to discuss what people feel are the worst tactics.

Glorian is merely putting out his opinion on what those are and why he leans that way. If you look he hasn't actually made any balance suggestions for new tactics, or swapping tactics. He is just asking for discussion on what tactics people think are bunk.

This isn't a theorycrafting future plans thread. It is a "I don't use x because y" thread.

I agree on those three being the worst tactics right now.

Do you have any opinions on them Gobtar? What tactics do you like to use / not use on your engi? Are there any you would single out as being the worst?

[peterthepan3]

Rifleman should have armor penetration/PB mirror for some skills.

[Karast]

Rifleman should have armor penetration/PB mirror for some skills.

Any opinions on what the weakest tactics are? Are there any you don't use?