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[Engi] Build: Kegsniper - Mk IV ‘Thorbold Pattern’ 16.11.2021

Ironbreaker, Engineer, Slayer, Runepriest
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Glorian
Posts: 4976

[Engi] Build: Kegsniper - Mk IV ‘Thorbold Pattern’ 16.11.2021

Post#1 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:51 am

Update 16.11.2021
WORK IN PROGRESS


Kegsniper Mk IV ‘Thorbold Pattern’

Description:
The Kegsniper is the epitome of Single Target (ST) Damage over a Range. Also he is mostly useless in a WB vs WB Environment. You will simply melt to all the AoE around you and your healers can’t keep you alive in the fights. If you join a WB you can hang back and Snipe Healers, but if your WB moves through the enemies to push to the Rez-Section you can’t follow. If you try to be on the frontline and drop AoE on them you have the wrong spec. A Armor Grenadier or DPS Tinkerer are more suited for that.
The build itself is squishy and relies on positioning and taking out Sorcs and Healers in one or two rotations. You can’t go on tanks and heavy armor DOKs as most of your rifle abilities will be mitigated by the targets armor.
Also the Kegsniper relies on a Sniper buddy and a very fast Target selection and Targetchange synchronized with your Snipe buddy. With a Sniperbuddy you can usually kill any squishy in one rotation. Most Tanks in 1.5 rotation.
Builds are a difficile thing. There are a lot of nice Tactics out there and you need to play with the stuff you think usefull. The following build is the ‘Thorbold Pattern’. Tested and perfected the time on RoR by the current highest Renown Engineer out there. There are of course other builds. Some more mobile, some more Resillient, but this Build excels at two points: Keep Snipe and Ambush Sniping.

You want basically to achieve two things.
1. Get the extra Crit Tactic Tracer Rounds
2. Get A lot of Balistic Skill and Weaponskill.
3. Stay alive in Keep Defences on your own.

Build:
Spoiler:
The build is focused on the whole concept of the ‘Thorbold Pattern’. Maximum Crits, your own Beer and hitting like a Dwarf Train.
Image

If you are Below RR 70+ take this:
Image

Armor Piercing is the ice on the cake. Crit Tactic, Keg, Snipe is your bread and beer.
Tactics:
Like seen in the Build the Used Tactics are:
Masterfull Aim (+BS)
Fighting Chance (+BS, +WS, +S, -T)
Hollow Points (Dot on Snipe, Gunblast)
Tracer Rounds (+15% Crit if near turret)

Rotation:
Dot Signal Flare
Dot Incendary
Armor Piercing Rounds
Snipe
Or here: Armor Piercing Rounds
Focused Fire
<- At this point the Target should be dead if running with a Sniper Buddy.
Hipshot
Gunblast

Armor piercing Rounds:
In the rotation you see it before Snipe, or directly after Snipe. The thing is, if you Snipe and then your bullet flies and you are capable of hitting Armor Piercing Round before the Bullet hit its Target the Armor strike through will be calculated in the shot and you still have 3 more seconds on its duration.
If you hit it before the snipe it will help on your Signal Flare Dot.

If you have Crackshot you can build them in too instead of gunblast. Crakshot is useful vs Doks as they need their weapons for some of their healing rotations as a melee Dok.
Also if you have someone close no reason not to use flashbang or concussive Grenade instead of gunblast. An interrupt or knockback is allways nice.

Gear:
Your first Step is going to Conqueror Gear.
5 Pieces of Conqueror Gear (RvR)
3 Genesis Jewels
3 Beastlorditems (Cloak, Jewel, Book)

Instead of going full Genesis the 3 Beastlorditems gives you +~58 WS. But if you don’t get the Beastlorditems just go full Genesis Set.

Talismans:
The ‘Thorbold Pattern’ Sniper relies heavily on WS to get the Damage through. If the enemy gets you, you are dead anyway. So you go full WS Talismans.

Pots:
Armor/BS
If you have the above mentioned Gear, Build, Renown and full WS the BS Pot will bring you right near the BS Softcap. The Full conqueror Gear will give you regularly the +100 BS to hit the softcap.
ALSO if you can get your Hands on the Liniment 'Something something of the Wild Hunt' use them. They give BS and +5% Crits for 30 mins. These are currently only harvestable in the Dungeons like Gunbad, Hunters Vale, Crypts and Bastion Stairs. Lvl 40 Mobs that you need to butcher also drops random liniment materials.

Endgame Gear as of 16.11.2021:
After Conqueror you naturally climb the ceiling to Vanquisher, Invader and then beyond which brings us into the BIS Gear.
There are two approaches on the End gear Sniper. 1st one is the "Higher Ceiling", meaning ou can get higher Crits, the 2nd approach is the "Higher Floor", meaning your base damage is higher but your max Crits lower.

"Higher Ceiling"
Spoiler:
Image
The idea is a maximum of Crit chance and these Crits hurt as much as possible.
It also uses 2 Triumphant items that come from playing ranked scenarios. But what if you HATE ranked scenarios. Well then change the 2 pieces with Vanquisher Items. They have the same armor penetration and Ranged Power.

"Higher Floor"
Spoiler:
Image
The idea is maximum Ranged Power. The BS ceiling is reached pretty easy on RR80 Gear. So you need to put as much extra Ranged power in as possible. Also in your Sentinel Jewel the Ranged Power Talisman. Your Crits aren't as damaging as the Ceiling, but your base Damage on every ability gets up.


Renown:
I usually prefer Daft Defender on any Engineer. The increase of Dodge/Disrupt is not to dismiss and improves your survivability greatly. Especially if you use Gunturret and are not under the protection of the flame turret buff.
BUT the ‘Thorbold Pattern’ is the epitome of an squishy Sniper.

So we go like this:
Spoiler:
Image
Full Weaponskill, Full Crits. Of course if you arent RR80 you start with maxing out your WS and after that going into Crits. If you are at some odd numbers in between just get some BS.
As mentioned several times Ranged Crit is better than BS.
Example: Gunblast does at BS 800 roughly ~1000 Damage. These are rough numbers as with Gunturret and Armor Buff it goes +/-20%.
If you Crit with Gunblast you do +50% Damage. That is +500 Damage.
So if you have +1% Crit chance, this 1% counts as +5 Damage. In 99 Cases you don't get anything from the 1%. But in 1/100 cases it makes +500 Damage. So this +1% counts as +5 Damage.
If you buy Renown BS, you get for 5 RR something like +20 BS (+4dps). If you buy Crit you get +2% for 5 RR. And the +2% are on the Gunblast something like +10 Damage on average. You can’t compare the 10>4 because gunblast has a 2 sec casttime. So the dps bonus is doubled for it. Still Crit is king.

Update: 15.11.2021. Still everything valid on the Renown.

What is about Weapon skill: Updated 04.06.2018
Weapon skill (WS) is reducing the enemies armor. But recent tests with the formula and ingame show a horrible increase in DPS vs several Targets. BUT getting more WS instead of BS has a point in the game.
For example. At 600 BS you have the choice to put in 20 BS or 20 WS. 20 Bs gives you more DPS, (should be 4) and 20 WS gives you more Armor Penetration. So of your Physical Damage more comes through. This "more Through" is overall at 600 BS LESS then simply going +20BS.
BUT at around 800 BS more BS and more WS get at an Break Even Point. Meaning the extra on +20 BS is the same like getting +20 WS. Meaning extra Damage (BS) is the same as not extra damage but more armor strike through (WS).
So up to 800 BS you can go straight there and put in more BS Talis. From 800 BS you can split up. And if you are close to the Softcap (~1050 BS) you should definitely go to more WS.
Also remember that WS only helps on physical Damage. Not on your Corporeal Grenadier and Tinkerer Stuff. Well it does something on Shotgun or Landmine. But the bread and butter of your Tinkerer/Grenadier is Corporeal Damage.

What you CAN do:
With that build you hit like a truck. With a Sniper buddy you can even kill Tanks quite fast. But you have to remind the four Ps of a Sniper. Position, position, position, position. You need to be always at 100 feet to the next melee spot. And in a Keep Defence Sniping you need to be most of the time out of sight. In the lakes you need to hide in the bushes most of the time.

What you CAN’T do:
You can’t survive in the first line of a Warband. If you want to do that get the Armor Tactic, some Wounds and Armor Talis and spec into middle and right Tree. Pull and melt, pull and melt…
You can’t roam with a 6 men and kill running away Shamans. If you want to do that get in ‘Well oiled machine’ to summon Bombard turrets instantly and throw Grenades at them. If an Witch Elf catches you, you are dead though.
On the Armor Tinkerer I have fought of 5 WEs over 30 minutes while sitting at an BO and sipping my tee, pretending to be afk. One after the next ofc. Your Armor and Keg plus some good pots keeps you alive to pretty much outsit and kill them. Some Knockback in or an exploding turret and they begin to realize their error.
On the ‘Thorbold Pattern’ you are pretty much dead if that happens. There are ways to prepare for an BO or Flag Defence vs WEs, but they will get you a lot of times.


Instruction Videos:
Keep Defence Sniping - Training Part 1 The Rotation - Training Part 2 Variations:

1. Gunline Thunderer
Spoiler:
The build above have the idea in mind that you are in a double dps team or want to hit as hard on your own as possible. On the Engineer Gunline we have plenty of hard hitting ST dps. The Rotation is therefore not Dot, Dot, Snipe. You want to kill fast, for that you need:
Image
You need to drop the Extra Crit Tactic and get this baby in. Pretty much everything explodes if you can get 24 Gunblasts in 3 seconds on a target.
2. Long Range Sniper.
Spoiler:
Sniping on 188ft and Gunblast on 125ft is not good enough? How about Snipe on 203ft and Gunblast on 140ft.
Last edited by Glorian on Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:56 am, edited 21 times in total.

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User avatar
shaggyboomboom
Posts: 1230

Re: [Engi] Build: Kegsniper

Post#2 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:25 am

Shouldn't the rotation be: Snipe-> Gunblast/Crackshot -> Hipshot -> FF ?
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Glorian
Posts: 4976

Re: [Engi] Build: Kegsniper

Post#3 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:53 am

The idea is to uphold Hollow points.

Let's say I start with a gunblast -> hollow points applied -> 3sec focused fire -> 2sec casttimes gunblast -> hollow points has reached its end -> Gunblast fires, new hollow points is applied.

Penril
Posts: 4441

Re: [Engi] Build: Kegsniper

Post#4 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:53 pm

The rotation should be more similar to a sorc (trying to get as much damage as possible in a short timestamp). So,

Dots
Snipe (or Gunblast if Snipe is on CD)
Concussion Grenade (if within range and have points in mid tree; probably not for this spec)
Hip Shot
Rapid Fire

At least that's how I roll and it works for me. :)

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Engi] Build: Kegsniper

Post#5 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:26 pm

Essentially what Penril said ^ I'd never go straight into Focused Fire as it gives enemy ample time to react and detaunt/los. Would you not wanna get Snipe/Crackshot (for max dps) or Flashbang grenade (if in range/Crackshot not available)/Hipshot + DoTs all hitting within the same timestamp, finishing off with RF and then going to Gunblast? That's just my 2c.

Also - you don't want to start off with Signal Flare as it means first to be cleansed; if you're using 15% dmg tactic (which you should in a group, sometimes), you wanna hide it behind other dots that aren't on such a long CD.
Image

User avatar
Glorian
Posts: 4976

Re: [Engi] Build: Kegsniper

Post#6 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:18 am

We are currently running Sniper two-, three-, or fourdwarf groups.

Most importantly is to focuse fire of course.
Secondly is tactic synergies.

Every Engi has most of the time 3 must have tactics. Leaving one extra group tactic.

We are using once in the group:

Concussive Mines
Pierce defence
Coordinated Fire
Extra Ammo

I'm quite a fan of pierce defense.
I have a very low BS build. So destro dodges a lot. If they dodge they get a -10% dodge, block debuff. Good for the other snipers in your group.

Coordinated fire is great with its +15% damage. The -10% dodge on the enemy is like a +10 damage. With the difference that you can apply it with every ability and not just a cleanable dot that is on a 30sec CD.

Also we are having full glass cannon snipers as well as me who is still in his armor renown and defense toughness gear. Total Damage and healing power is not that much apart. The only difference is that I don't melt instantly. ;)

As a next thing we are trying synchronized rotations. Results will be posted soonTM.

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Kragg
Posts: 1769

Re: [Engi] Build: Kegsniper

Post#7 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:02 pm

Penril wrote:The rotation should be more similar to a sorc (trying to get as much damage as possible in a short timestamp). So,

Dots
Snipe (or Gunblast if Snipe is on CD)
Concussion Grenade (if within range and have points in mid tree; probably not for this spec)
Hip Shot
Rapid Fire

At least that's how I roll and it works for me. :)
Coordinated Fire
Dot
Snipe or Gunblast
Focused Fire
Hipshot

I am pondering about trading my keg in for crackshot.


Or if it is up I finish half way with a Cannon Smash :D
Image
Sergeant-Major Drengk Burloksson, RR 85 Sniper
Hulfdan Irongrip, RR 81 Ironbreaker
Proud Founder of the 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers
Alliance officer of the Grand Alliance

User avatar
Glorian
Posts: 4976

Re: [Engi] Build: Kegsniper

Post#8 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:14 pm

Need more tests on the sniper fourman group.

We have currently:
Full Sniper
Full Sniper
Rifle/Grenadier with Napalm
DotmasterTM with every dot available for Engi. Need RR 70 to have Sticky Bomb too. ;)

The last both with Gunturret and throwing arm to shoot on the same target as the snipers.

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Glorian
Posts: 4976

Re: [Engi] Build: Kegsniper

Post#9 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:51 am

Good after some more testing. The DotmasterTM is krutt. ;)
When all your dots kick your buddies have already killed the target or it has ran away and is healing himself behind a stone.

So back to Kegsniper for Toaming/SCs and Tinkerer in mass RvR. :)

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footpatrol2
Posts: 1093

Re: [Engi] Build: Kegsniper

Post#10 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:04 am

Run 2 or 3 Runepriests with master rune of speed to shave off time on your hardcasts from Rifleman spec. Master Rune of Speed should stack. If it doesn't, have a 40/40 runepriest post a proposal in the balance forums for them too stack.

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