2H Vengance IB thoughts/experiences

[phatzas]

I am considering trying out a veng 2h IB as my order toon. It would be more of a solo/ganking and possibly duo with a DPS WP.
The build I am looking is http://www.ror.builders/career/ironbrea ... ,3742,3768 while swapping between parry to grudge/tough/kd-kb reduct for 4th tactic.
Has anyone tried a veng IB on RoR yet to any extent and how is their dps output with all that potentially high crit % and decent combo of dots (heavy blow/snare/cave in) and straight dd?

[peterthepan3]

The damage can be very nice with 100 Grudge, BUT you simply lose out on too much imo: you lack the outgoing HD, the snare, the runic shield.

If you're planning on doing such a duo, then it's better to have your WP spec defensively and into Grace.

[phatzas]

Aside from magic (namely sorc) I should be able to mitigate a decent amount of dmg from parry which should be 50%+ with a little gear and the 25% parry buff. The 25% parry buff also transfers to the WP. Would it not be best for WP to spec for HD and the big finisher from wrath? Or is the off healing really that sad w/o the grace of sigmar tactic?

[peterthepan3]

Aside from magic (namely sorc) I should be able to mitigate a decent amount of dmg from parry which should be 50%+ with a little gear and the 25% parry buff. The 25% parry buff also transfers to the WP. Would it not be best for WP to spec for HD and the big finisher from wrath? Or is the off healing really that sad w/o the grace of sigmar tactic?

I mean for max DPS, sure. But you're going to be focused a lot as a 2H IB, and without runic shield/decent amount of defenses you'll get rinsed. That's why sometimes it's good to have a defensive 2H WP while you are DPS, so that people focus the WP while you can go HAM.

[Eathisword]

I tried that build. It sucked for me. Solo, you will lose agasint every class except bad solo choppa. Mara and WE will destroy you, all range will massacre you, as will all dd healer. And the worst will be vs tanks, you will be dead while they still hover around 99% health.

With the tactic you chose, you will walk around with about 3500 armor, terrible resists, 400 toughness and no dodge/disrupt. Literally every solo player left on the server will chase you down in every zone for the freenown.

Simply put :
1- losing EArthshatter mean losing range snare + 1k+ crit finisher that bypass toughness.
2- Losing PK means you will lose vs all healers.
3- No investing in brotherhood means your armor / resist buffs will be crap and you lose magic bubble (essential for killing Mdok and living through sorc/magus rotation). It also mean PBlow will be badly scaled (is it your second ability that bypass toughness)
4- You lose GnM, which is 4k+ health regen per minute.

For duo, it might work the first day, till everyone figures out that if they kill you, ain't nothing your WP buddy will be able to do about it cause your build as 0 survivability and parry won't help you in a game dominated by Rdps.

When I tried that spec, I needed Halhammer to guard me so i could queue scenarios. That's how bad this is outside of specific troll/premade play.

[nocturnalguest]

I tried that also. I found it very funny in pugs or groups from lfg channel.
But for any kind of efficiency this just won't do. You can't guard, and you have to play, position, engage not as tank but as mdps. As previously mentioned won't work in solo/duo, cause you can't burst without earthshatter. The only thing that is worth taking in Vengeance is tactic for some parry and crit but it doesn't fit into even RR 70, you simply can't have oathbound and earthshatter both with so many points in Vengeance. GBF hits for like ~200-300 on squishes, all I can say after running it - nice tool for kb stealing. Even tried the following rotation - keep stubborn as stone up just in case, debuff armor, buff AF / WS (ensure you almost now will get 100 grudge), cave-in, GBF. Haven't been recording logs and stuff, but it's WAY less damage and burst than just slam earthshatter. Yeah, and on tactics what Volgo say. I'm saying not for 1st time, but Ib is super limited with choices.
And about WP duo, Im not sure oathbound worth it if WP goes fully dps, you may have huge problems to survive without GnM 2v3+, if enemy figure out you are without it you will be focused hard and WP have to use divine assault almost on CD, thus not dpsing. Btw, one of pros of ib/WP duo is both OHD and IHD, so you have to take that tactic.

[nocturnalguest]

Some thinking out loud...
Lads, I thought about reason why going that high into Vengeance simply doesn't work and came to the conclusion that problem is gear actually. Specifically weapon speed. Why earthsplit is so on par with top stuff? Simply cause it's 4.2 weapon speed, while 39/39 is 3.4, 40/45 is 3.4 and subj (I dunno) probably also 3.4.
If weapon with 4.2 existed could be possible to take oathstone jewelry and domi shoulders plus procs from stubborn as stone. No chances to test, but it could be very strong aa dps with higher skills damage and could be worth going further than cave-in.
Your thoughts?