[Runepriest] Runepriests DPS builds

[AxelF]

The class suffers from the fact that the 4 key dps abilities are high up in each of the three mastery trees. Hopefully this viewtopic.php?f=95&t=27565 proposal will be looked at soon which would provide a much more sensible option.

I hope this never gonna be for Zeals, cause with this change you lose sеager + ap ritual ST and aoe builds, RP don't have WoI and Rez debuff tacts, and with this change you break DDZEALOTs even more.
Study the mirror first before you make such proposals.

I know you've complained a lot about how the change to AP ritual is the death of DD zealots, but I've never found it necessary and don't have AP issues. Use pots, use AP gear or group with classes that can provide AP if you're having trouble, but honestly I'm not sure what format or style of play you're going for that means you can't kill your targets before running out of AP. Are you talking solo, in which case are you targeting def tanks or healers? (plus balancing won't be adjusted based on solo in any case). Or 6 man, in which case it sounds like you need to focus targets better or get a better group comp. In WB play the spec I've highlighted would far outshine the one you mention.

In any case, even at rr70 you're not picking up stagger, SoR and Sweeping Disgorgement. Sounds like you need a better build and rotation.

[kweedko]

I know you've complained a lot about how the change to AP ritual is the death of DD zealots, but I've never found it necessary and don't have AP issues. Use pots, use AP gear or group with classes that can provide AP if you're having trouble, but honestly I'm not sure what format or style of play you're going for that means you can't kill your targets before running out of AP. Are you talking solo, in which case are you targeting def tanks or healers? (plus balancing won't be adjusted based on solo in any case). Or 6 man, in which case it sounds like you need to focus targets better or get a better group comp. In WB play the spec I've highlighted would far outshine the one you mention.

In any case, even at rr70 you're not picking up stagger, SoR and Sweeping Disgorgement. Sounds like you need a better build and rotation.

You don't have issues cause DDRP have Immolating Grasp - for better AP management, and don't have WoI + CA combo which nullifies your AP in seconds. Zeals got only one option for AP and it is Ritual.

In WB play you don't need both tactics cause somebody already healing you, you need heal debuff only, that's why you proposal is invalid. In your specs you just want good solo DMG and good aoe DMG + heal debuff + selfheal at the same time, so it's basically for solo playstyle demand .

WB spec for Zeal is http://www.ror.builders/career/zealot/s ... 40,5730&t=

ST spec http://www.ror.builders/career/zealot/s ... 30,5737&t=

Solo spec
for farm - http://www.ror.builders/career/zealot/s ... 40,5737&t=

for gank -http://www.ror.builders/career/zealot/s ... 37,5730&t=

So tact place change is absolutely no needed for Zeals.

[AxelF]

Interesting that your complaint was that you lose access to the stagger, but only your 'gank' build of the 4 proposed takes it. I play both DD RP and Zealot, and the only two builds you posted that actually 'matter' are the first two - for WB or ST spec for small group play. In either case, switching the heal debuff from Alchemy to Dark Rites would provide a far more useful build.

You'd lose the AP ritual from Alchemy but your WB spec would gain 12 points to play with in Witchcraft, meaning you could provide some actual ST pressure too while CA is on CD, and also gain access to 10% strike through and 50% lifetap, meaning CA puts out some serious off healing.

Similarly your ST spec loses the AP ritual but gains Sweeping Disgorgement - far more useful to an organised group than AP ritual which can either be covered by the heal Zealot in your group, or the Chosen. You also gain CA which will easily allow you to AoE heal debuff - again far more useful in terms of pressuring and killing an organised group. With Demon Spittle you're pretty much able to constantly spam AoE heal debuffs which is a killer for enemy healers.

They're just flat out more useful builds when the only downside is something you can compensate for with pots and better AP management. There are minimal differences in AP management between RP and Zealot - Immolating Grasp is a drain only, not a 'drains into you'.

[kweedko]

Interesting that your complaint was that you lose access to the stagger, but only your 'gank' build of the 4 proposed takes it. I play both DD RP and Zealot, and the only two builds you posted that actually 'matter' are the first two - for WB or ST spec for small group play. In either case, switching the heal debuff from Alchemy to Dark Rites would provide a far more useful build.

You'd lose the AP ritual from Alchemy but your WB spec would gain 12 points to play with in Witchcraft, meaning you could provide some actual ST pressure too while CA is on CD, and also gain access to 10% strike through and 50% lifetap, meaning CA puts out some serious off healing.

Similarly your ST spec loses the AP ritual but gains Sweeping Disgorgement - far more useful to an organised group than AP ritual which can either be covered by the heal Zealot in your group, or the Chosen. You also gain CA which will easily allow you to AoE heal debuff - again far more useful in terms of pressuring and killing an organised group. With Demon Spittle you're pretty much able to constantly spam AoE heal debuffs which is a killer for enemy healers.

They're just flat out more useful builds when the only downside is something you can compensate for with pots and better AP management. There are minimal differences in AP management between RP and Zealot - Immolating Grasp is a drain only, not a 'drains into you'.

You completely don't understand aoe build you see it like RP, for Zeal it's melee range gameplay you have no time to offheal somebody, you waste your AP in seconds with wobocomcombo, no pots will gave you that what ritual gave before the all nerfs, you spamming RoA and DS - under guard of your tank and bombing with Wombocombo to prevent enemy to runaway.
Your proposal is gain useless SoR to AOE build instead of AP ritual for all party + can take "Waves of Chaos" for more fluff aoe dps. Lifetap here just no needed. Your proposal ruins 3 builds to get 1 which already fine.

+ Where did you get "10% strike through" on zealot? Not mentioning, who need a strike through - when you have high int.

ST for group play is lame, cause any other DPS can do it better.

[Sigimund]

Has your ST build changed with the buff/correction to Rune of Striking?

[AxelF]

Interesting that your complaint was that you lose access to the stagger, but only your 'gank' build of the 4 proposed takes it. I play both DD RP and Zealot, and the only two builds you posted that actually 'matter' are the first two - for WB or ST spec for small group play. In either case, switching the heal debuff from Alchemy to Dark Rites would provide a far more useful build.

You'd lose the AP ritual from Alchemy but your WB spec would gain 12 points to play with in Witchcraft, meaning you could provide some actual ST pressure too while CA is on CD, and also gain access to 10% strike through and 50% lifetap, meaning CA puts out some serious off healing.

Similarly your ST spec loses the AP ritual but gains Sweeping Disgorgement - far more useful to an organised group than AP ritual which can either be covered by the heal Zealot in your group, or the Chosen. You also gain CA which will easily allow you to AoE heal debuff - again far more useful in terms of pressuring and killing an organised group. With Demon Spittle you're pretty much able to constantly spam AoE heal debuffs which is a killer for enemy healers.

They're just flat out more useful builds when the only downside is something you can compensate for with pots and better AP management. There are minimal differences in AP management between RP and Zealot - Immolating Grasp is a drain only, not a 'drains into you'.

You completely don't understand aoe build you see it like RP, for Zeal it's melee range gameplay you have no time to offheal somebody, you waste your AP in seconds with wobocomcombo, no pots will gave you that what ritual gave before the all nerfs, you spaming RoA and DS - uder guard of your tank and bomnbing with Wobocombo to prevent enemy to runaway.
Your proposal is gain useless SoR to AOE build instead of AP ritual for all paty + can take "Waves of Chaos" for more fluff aoe dps. Lifetap here just no needed. Your proposal ruins 3 builds to get 1 which already fine.

+ Where did you get "10% strike through" on zealot?

St for group play is lame, cause any other DPS can do it better.

Why are you trying to debate the merits of builds when you don't know what tools you currently have available to you? Transference gives 10% strikethrough. And ST for group play is lame? So 75% of your builds are for solo play which noone has any intention of balancing around? If then you're advocating your 11 Alchemy 13 Dark Rites build for all group play (WB and 6 man), you gain the AP ritual (which as I've mentioned can be covered by other members of your group as well as other AP management sources).

Under this proposal you'd spend one more point in Dark Rites to gain the heal debuff, and then would have 12 points to play with. You could even still pick up the AP ritual with 6 of them, so your argument is completely null.

Alternatively,. you could take Transference in Witchcraft for 10% strikethrough and 50% lifetap - no idea what you're talking about regarding having no time for off healing - 50% of direct damage done is provided as healing. If you cast CA correctly that's a good chunk of off healing, no time spent not damaging...

As a further alternative you could drop WoI and take SoR with 2 points left to play with. Personally I'd go with SoR as how often are you realistically casting WoI in small scale? In large WB play WoI will be covered by one of the heal zealots in the WB.

The fact that you've suggested 4 different builds and then stated that 3 of them are 'lame for group play' suggests that the majority of what you want to do is roam around solo. For that you don't need heal debuff as if you're attacking healers or other dps healers, you're not killing them - heal debuff or not, and if you're not attacking healers then it's not worth slotting - there are better tactics. For the record I agree with you - a ST build is not worth it for group play, you need a build with CA, SD and heal debuff. I personally think it would be better to provide a build that includes CA, SD, heal debuff plus 10% strikethrough, 50% lifetap healing and a solid ST damaging ability with snare, than one that brings CA, SD, heal debuff and an AP ritual that can be covered by other members of your party.

I'm also curious to know which 3 builds this proposal would be ruining? Presumably the three that you've stated are lame for group play?

[AxelF]

Has your ST build changed with the buff/correction to Rune of Striking?

Not really - though the increased damage is nice to have you've almost always got better things to do with those 2 seconds.

It depends what sort of format you're talking about though, in warband RvR play you're not going to be in a ST build. If you're talking about a solo/small group roaming build you're relying on Rune of Immolation, Rune of Fate, Rune of Iron and Rune of Cleaving for DoTs, and Rune of Fire and Rune of Burning for direct damage. If you're fighting a melee class and you have 2s to cast, Rune of Battle is a much better option. I just don't see where you fit Rune of Striking into a rotation without it being a DPS loss.

[kweedko]

Why are you trying to debate the merits of builds when you don't know what tools you currently have available to you? Transference gives 10% strikethrough. And ST for group play is lame? So 75% of your builds are for solo play which noone has any intention of balancing around? If then you're advocating your 11 Alchemy 13 Dark Rites build for all group play (WB and 6 man), you gain the AP ritual (which as I've mentioned can be covered by other members of your group as well as other AP management sources).

Under this proposal you'd spend one more point in Dark Rites to gain the heal debuff, and then would have 12 points to play with. You could even still pick up the AP ritual with 6 of them, so your argument is completely null.

Alternatively,. you could take Transference in Witchcraft for 10% strikethrough and 50% lifetap - no idea what you're talking about regarding having no time for off healing - 50% of direct damage done is provided as healing. If you cast CA correctly that's a good chunk of off healing, no time spent not damaging...

As a further alternative you could drop WoI and take SoR with 2 points left to play with. Personally I'd go with SoR as how often are you realistically casting WoI in small scale? In large WB play WoI will be covered by one of the heal zealots in the WB.

The fact that you've suggested 4 different builds and then stated that 3 of them are 'lame for group play' suggests that the majority of what you want to do is roam around solo. For that you don't need heal debuff as if you're attacking healers or other dps healers, you're not killing them - heal debuff or not, and if you're not attacking healers then it's not worth slotting - there are better tactics. For the record I agree with you - a ST build is not worth it for group play, you need a build with CA, SD and heal debuff. I personally think it would be better to provide a build that includes CA, SD, heal debuff plus 10% strikethrough, 50% lifetap healing and a solid ST damaging ability with snare, than one that brings CA, SD, heal debuff and an AP ritual that can be covered by other members of your party.

I'm also curious to know which 3 builds this proposal would be ruining? Presumably the three that you've stated are lame for group play?

What a twist strikethrough on transference - i bet this change from the dark age of disrupt - break a system and fix it with a shabby patch lol. Oh it's totally change EVERYTING, actually not.
WoI is useful anytime, cause it's making good burst, proc hdebuff, and have a not shabby CC.

"ST damaging ability with snare" in a WB play lol(they mirrored it only cause RP had it), when you got tanks with perma aoe snare, or shams with aoesnare, even in party play it's almost useless and damage from SoR not actually "solid" still lower than AM or discwizard similar skill.

Better tactics that heal debuff

"'lame for group play' suggests that the majority of what you want to do is roam around solo" i wan't to not breaking 3 out of 4 build for nothing change for the 1 build - it's your proposal destroy everything for nothing, i am keeper of every playstyle for DDZEALOTs here even if it's lame.

[AxelF]

I've already explained to you that your dream build would still be entirely viable, and in fact you'd have extra points to play with.

Which builds exactly will this break? Builds that you've claimed are only useful for solo ganking? In fact the build I've proposed would be the optimum build for solo ganking as it provides all the damaging tools you need and only lacks AP ritual. If you can't kill someone 1 v 1 without having AP issues you need to play another class.

I fear for the future of DD zealot with you as its self appointed mouthpiece given your knowledge of the class..

[kweedko]

Which builds exactly will this break? Builds that you've claimed are only useful for solo ganking? In fact the build I've proposed would be the optimum build for solo ganking as it provides all the damaging tools you need and only lacks AP ritual. If you can't kill someone 1 v 1 without having AP issues you need to play another class.

Your "build" have no control, with your change we will lose MoM or SA, or Transference or SoR or BoTz, or AS so you basicaly exclude anyting exept bombing spec. It's not about AP it's about variety, your propolsal kills it and brings noting except comfort for bombing spec.

You can just ask to move Rune of Battle to first Path and nothing change for your spec with no tactic moving.

Instead of making a real toughtfull propolsal about usles skills and tactics to bring variety to DDRP, you just want all and in one time in your faivorite spec on RP.