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Ironbreaker warband improvements

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zakgrin
Posts: 52

Re: Ironbreaker warband improvements

Post#61 » Thu May 14, 2020 5:53 pm

TimOh wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:41 am
I did not go through this entire thread, but I am curious if it has been asked that a stipulation be placed on oath friend? This stipulation would be that when in a warband of 12+ people, oath friend could be applied to two people, in a 24 person maybe 3 people. It could be implement where the first person that you select as your oath friend stays that way in case you drop below 12 people, you could then select a new target, apply oath friend and any time your warband has 12+ it toggles on.
This is an idea I have certainly never heard of before. Would be interesting if there was a tactic in the Stone Tree that gave you an additional oath friend. This tactic would probably have to sit where shield mastery is because it is strong.
Last edited by zakgrin on Thu May 14, 2020 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Knights of Order
Ironbreaker Guide - Suggestions and Feedback always welcome!

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zakgrin
Posts: 52

Re: Ironbreaker warband improvements

Post#62 » Thu May 14, 2020 5:56 pm

Ramlaen wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:31 pm
How about having Oath of Vengeance make Vengeful Strike pump morale for you and your oathfriend?
Could you explain how this would look a bit more? Right now Vengeful Strike is spammable, so I think this would be pretty OP.
Zakgrin - rr8x Ironbreaker
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Ramlaen
Posts: 92

Re: Ironbreaker warband improvements

Post#63 » Thu May 14, 2020 6:55 pm

zakgrin wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:56 pm
Ramlaen wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:31 pm
How about having Oath of Vengeance make Vengeful Strike pump morale for you and your oathfriend?
Could you explain how this would look a bit more? Right now Vengeful Strike is spammable, so I think this would be pretty OP.
Every hit with Vengeful Strike grants your oathfriend and those within 20 feet of your oathfriend X amount of morale (the current AoE mechanic of Oath of Vengeance), but in return Vengeful Strike would now have a 10(?) second cooldown.
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hammerhead
Posts: 146

Re: Ironbreaker warband improvements

Post#64 » Fri May 15, 2020 7:55 am

You don’t understand that the weakness of IB is not in it, but in the fact that all 3 destro tanks received improvements that went beyond the line of balance.
Moreover, the rules for posting proposals clearly indicated that one class should not be given the ability X because its mirror has it.
As a result, the developers themselves crossed Guardian and Hunter WL spec to the terrible mSH mutant with the survivability of the tank and the mobility of the WL. They gave BG all the parry/block things that used to be exclusive IB. Or like the last nerf of the Runefang and its transfer to the Chosen.
And then destro players come and make innocent eyes looking at the statistics of the distribution of order classes. Not only that, some even propose to continue to nerf rDD with very dubious arguments.
In this situation, just in order to restore at least some success, you need to act in a more radical way!

First, narrow down the Grudges requirements for activating abilities. Not with 25% but with 15% and the maximum power falls not at 100% but at 85%.
Avenging the Debt just has to give 85 Grudges for 40 AP with of 30-40 CD.
Furious Reprisal should reduce block and parry by 10% for 10 seconds.
Given the last update of the Chosen, Seasoned Veteran should be triggered by the PARRY too!
Told Ya So! must have a corporeal debuff component by 250 or sow. It is correct that BWs are fried even harder!
Oath of Vengeance should have increased the base buff value for Vengeful Strike to 250 and have a debuff component for enemy toughness (Not my idea, but two claws behind).
Overprotective should work for the whole group! (Hello Dire Shield)
Long-Held Grudge throw out this tactic and instead introduce a new one for Brotherhood tree-
Punishing Blow cool down reduced by 10s and Watch An 'Learn reduced by 10 Grudges, and Weapon Skill value increasing to 250.


Well, or you can continue to talk about the influence of appearance on the popularity of the class as in the next topic.
(\|)o0(|/)

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zakgrin
Posts: 52

Re: Ironbreaker warband improvements

Post#65 » Sat May 16, 2020 7:10 pm

hammerhead wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 7:55 am
You don’t understand that the weakness of IB is not in it, but in the fact that all 3 destro tanks received improvements that went beyond the line of balance.
Moreover, the rules for posting proposals clearly indicated that one class should not be given the ability X because its mirror has it.
As a result, the developers themselves crossed Guardian and Hunter WL spec to the terrible mSH mutant with the survivability of the tank and the mobility of the WL. They gave BG all the parry/block things that used to be exclusive IB. Or like the last nerf of the Runefang and its transfer to the Chosen.
And then destro players come and make innocent eyes looking at the statistics of the distribution of order classes. Not only that, some even propose to continue to nerf rDD with very dubious arguments.
In this situation, just in order to restore at least some success, you need to act in a more radical way!

First, narrow down the Grudges requirements for activating abilities. Not with 25% but with 15% and the maximum power falls not at 100% but at 85%.
Avenging the Debt just has to give 85 Grudges for 40 AP with of 30-40 CD.
Furious Reprisal should reduce block and parry by 10% for 10 seconds.
Given the last update of the Chosen, Seasoned Veteran should be triggered by the PARRY too!
Told Ya So! must have a corporeal debuff component by 250 or sow. It is correct that BWs are fried even harder!
Oath of Vengeance should have increased the base buff value for Vengeful Strike to 250 and have a debuff component for enemy toughness (Not my idea, but two claws behind).
Overprotective should work for the whole group! (Hello Dire Shield)
Long-Held Grudge throw out this tactic and instead introduce a new one for Brotherhood tree-
Punishing Blow cool down reduced by 10s and Watch An 'Learn reduced by 10 Grudges, and Weapon Skill value increasing to 250.


Well, or you can continue to talk about the influence of appearance on the popularity of the class as in the next topic.
Hey Hammerhead, thanks for the comment! I really like your proposals (lots of stuff I had never thought of) and they are coming from a different angle than a majority of the proposals in this post. I'd like to get them added to the OP but I'd love to get a bit more information so that I'm understanding your ideas correctly. Could you explain each one a bit further. How will it work, why have you chosen the buff/debuff (very interested in the furious reprisal debuff for instance), and if these abilities would move at all in their trees, or stay in the same place.

Appreciate it!
Zakgrin - rr8x Ironbreaker
Knights of Order
Ironbreaker Guide - Suggestions and Feedback always welcome!

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Dageca
Posts: 11

Re: Ironbreaker warband improvements

Post#66 » Sat May 16, 2020 8:49 pm

How about increasing party healing rate/wounds base on IB grudge lvl
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zakgrin
Posts: 52

Re: Ironbreaker warband improvements

Post#67 » Sat May 16, 2020 9:02 pm

Dageca wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 8:49 pm
How about increasing party healing rate/wounds base on IB grudge lvl
Thanks for posting Dageca! Could you elaborate?
Zakgrin - rr8x Ironbreaker
Knights of Order
Ironbreaker Guide - Suggestions and Feedback always welcome!

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hammerhead
Posts: 146

Re: Ironbreaker warband improvements

Post#68 » Thu May 21, 2020 8:53 am

zakgrin wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:10 pm
I'd like to get them added to the OP
Of course not. OP is to give the class an extraordinary amount of parry an extra 200 stats which 100% uptime, previously blaming its direct mirror for the same. And my proposal is so, no more than QOL.
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zakgrin
Posts: 52

Re: Ironbreaker warband improvements

Post#69 » Thu May 21, 2020 4:46 pm

hammerhead wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:53 am
zakgrin wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:10 pm
I'd like to get them added to the OP
Of course not. OP is to give the class an extraordinary amount of parry an extra 200 stats which 100% uptime, previously blaming its direct mirror for the same. And my proposal is so, no more than QOL.
Not sure I'm following here. No one has suggested making the parry buff stronger, outside of maybe the uptime, although 10s is probably good enough. What we have suggested is either increasing the baseline stat value of our default buffs (vengeful strike, guarded attack, etc.), or nerfing Knight/Chosen auras, as overlapping single target IB buffs/auras have the same base which doesn't make any sense.

The actual proposal will be toned down from what you see in the OP, which is why I'd like to better understand your QOL changes.
Zakgrin - rr8x Ironbreaker
Knights of Order
Ironbreaker Guide - Suggestions and Feedback always welcome!

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 606

Re: Ironbreaker warband improvements

Post#70 » Thu May 21, 2020 6:36 pm

In sum on stat point buffs.

Knight Tough buff > than IB

Knight Auru Buff > than IB's one corp resist buff

Knight Str Buff = to IB's two strength buffs that each have other important things attached to them. Yes knight covers the whole party but only MDPS need Str really and IB's Willpower buff is big for healers.

Knight> than IB with other grp buffs like +% healing and actions points etc etc.

IB is going to have to find something other than stat buffs. Maybe grp wide parry by 2-5% parry buff with grudge? Problem is wounds, armor, resists, etc are provided by other staple classes like WP/RP. IB is tanky tank enough for places is non-esports level cities, not sure if more than 1 would be taken in an optimized city wb. Punishing Knock is probably the biggest thing a SnB IB gives towards securing kills on healers. 2h has cave-in but its grp utility isnt much different than the shield knockdown.
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