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IB Question

Ironbreaker, Engineer, Slayer, Runepriest

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bayrack01
Posts: 2

IB Question

Post#1 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:35 pm

I hear Iron Breakers mechanic "GRUDGES," isn't as good as its Destro mirror mechanic "HATRED."
So my question, is this why the Iron Breaker isn't a popular tank on Order side? or is it the combination
of not as good abilities and a worse mechanic ?

I see lots of Black Guards on Destro side in a lot of group set ups but I do not see as many Iron Breakers on
Order side in group setups. Is 2h Iron Breaker not a good setup for 6man or SnB Iron Breaker the same for
6man?

Or is it just lack of good abilities or tactics?

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TreefAM
Posts: 440

Re: IB Question

Post#2 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:41 pm

They are the same mechanic, I play both and have no problem keeping it up no matter which I play.
The big difference in short between the two classes is
2h BG is better because it offers aoe debuffs and some aoe pressure while the 2h IB doesn't offer anything (outside of st pressure) that a snb IB doesn't.
snb BG is useless because most of the BG st buffs are garbage, and the only good thing it offers is a armor buff that stacks with armor pots and a outgoing healdebuff (it's easier for snb BGs to spec into it) while the snb IB has a lot of good st buffs for their slayers and it functions as an AP battery for the whole party.
In smallscale (and by that I mean 6v6 and scs not really roaming) a 2h IB and a 2h BG are both good with their pressure, on call kds and long (longer for the BG) punts.

bayrack01
Posts: 2

Re: IB Question

Post#3 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:13 pm

What about 2h Iron Breaker and Snb Iron Breaker in ORvR ? Do they loose value more than Black Guard in these situations? Why?

TreefAM
Posts: 440

Re: IB Question

Post#4 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:25 pm

2h IB has nothing to offer (outside like I mentioned, some single target dmg) that a snb IB already doesn't and to add to that, a snb IB is tankier and a better guard for your slayer.
2h BG offers two strong aoe debuffs (chance to be crit and wounds) while snb BG offers a healdebuff and armor buff. Sure the 2h BG is also not as tanky and will make for a poor choppa guard, that's why you stick them to a we or mara.
The aoe debuffs that a 2h BG has are on a knight on order. So a good 24man will have 1 2hBG or 1 2h kotbs depending what faction.

With the recent change to how guard dmg is handled, having HTL and shield means much more than it has before the change, even though destro doesn't really have a lot of rdps, you will still feel the difference when guarding as a snb and 2h tank. And the drop in dmg you will have for running snb will be covered by the dmg your guarded dps will do since dead tanks can't guard :D

That being said, you can always try both out in the lakes, to be a good 2h you will need a lot of high end gear though so it's a bit of a farm, but no hurry, once you get there test it and see if it suits you.

I used to lead 12mans and city warbands on my 2h BG (85 bis) and always had a bit of a problem surviving when zerg diving order, also there was a problem since guarding choppas was a death sentence for me.
Then I made a borc, got him to 80 few days ago and been leading on him since I was in full vanq, zerg diving was never easier and had no problems staying alive even after the guard change patch.
Same goes for my snb IB, led a few order 12mans around the lakes and had no issue facing off bigger destro groups and wiping them while guarding a slayer.

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zulnam
Posts: 232

Re: IB Question

Post#5 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:52 pm

Not to ninja the thread, but I also have a 2h-related IB question.

which talis to focus on? Str or WS? What values am I aiming for?
SW, Kotbs, IB, Mara, SH

GONDOR
Posts: 17

Re: IB Question

Post#6 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:19 pm

zulnam wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:52 pm
Not to ninja the thread, but I also have a 2h-related IB question.

which talis to focus on? Str or WS? What values am I aiming for?
WS to ~600-650+. Armour stacking with talismans is meta, so it's not uncommon to hit destro with 4k+ armour. Since armour doesn't have a softcap, but the damage reduction caps at 75%, if you don't have enough you'll only ever be doing like 25-30% of your damage. Every % after that 30% mark is just pure extra damage, and it's very rare to find people you'll penetrate all their armour, except sorcs.

Rekoom
Posts: 79

Re: IB Question

Post#7 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:40 am

What would you say are good stat targets to aim for on 2h IB out of curiosity? 600 WS seems to be a very high amount, what would your strength and defensive stats look like in comparison?
Rekoom - BO
Nelsha - Witch Elf

abezverkhiy
Posts: 141

Re: IB Question

Post#8 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:20 am

Rekoom wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:40 am
What would you say are good stat targets to aim for on 2h IB out of curiosity? 600 WS seems to be a very high amount, what would your strength and defensive stats look like in comparison?
Good question! We have 7 slots for talis - this gives 140 WS (which would otherwise give you same amount of wounds, tou, str - whichever you go for). You can buy another 120 with 34 renown points (getting full Reflexes and Deft Defender cost 40 points). So you have 260 WS and need another 340 from set bonuses and gear. But you will be going for offensive sets only.

So while STR will be sort of OK, your defensive stats will suck big time, pardon my French.
Valknutt WP, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL, Glenturret ENG, Vanhelsen WH

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nocturnalguest
Posts: 158

Re: IB Question

Post#9 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:27 am

Kinda same in ideal. You need str of 600+ as well. Wounds as close to 9k hp as possible. Nowdays you dont skip toughness completely so rugged tactic makes some sense.

GONDOR
Posts: 17

Re: IB Question

Post#10 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:51 am

[/quote]
abezverkhiy wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:20 am
Rekoom wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:40 am
What would you say are good stat targets to aim for on 2h IB out of curiosity? 600 WS seems to be a very high amount, what would your strength and defensive stats look like in comparison?
Good question! We have 7 slots for talis - this gives 140 WS (which would otherwise give you same amount of wounds, tou, str - whichever you go for). You can buy another 120 with 34 renown points (getting full Reflexes and Deft Defender cost 40 points). So you have 260 WS and need another 340 from set bonuses and gear. But you will be going for offensive sets only.

So while STR will be sort of OK, your defensive stats will suck big time, pardon my French.
We have 9 Talisman slots, 8+1, you forgot weapons.

I don't agree with your view that your defensive stats will stuck; on my IB atm I have unbuffed (not self buffed or with potions);

640 str
615 ws
274 ini
602 toughness
902 wounds

4.8k armour
500 for resists (probably the only hole)
48% Parry
28% Dodge
26% Dist

This doesn't include offensive set buffs like melee power or crit.

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