Recent Topics

Ads

[IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

Ironbreaker, Engineer, Slayer, Runepriest

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use
Your topic MUST start with your class name between hooks (IE : [Shaman] blablabla)
User avatar
Parallels66
Posts: 57

Re: [IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

Post#31 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:14 pm

kirraha wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:50 pm
After their last buff with AP bot option the IB is very useful in both smallscale and wb ?
its no where near enough value to take one over a kotbs/SM still, KotBS/SM do more damage, bring better utility, bring better defensives, bring better buffs. the new AP pump is nice but its not such a big deal in the grand scheme of things that other tanks can bring.

Ads
User avatar
kirraha
Posts: 163

Re: [IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

Post#32 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:30 pm

Parallels66 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:14 pm
kirraha wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:50 pm
After their last buff with AP bot option the IB is very useful in both smallscale and wb ?
its no where near enough value to take one over a kotbs/SM still, KotBS/SM do more damage, bring better utility, bring better defensives, bring better buffs. the new AP pump is nice but its not such a big deal in the grand scheme of things that other tanks can bring.
Well, i can rly talk out of the perspective of using them in WB, and they replacing our SM atm due to the AP boost it brings compared to SM. :)

User avatar
Parallels66
Posts: 57

Re: [IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

Post#33 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:11 pm

kirraha wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:30 pm
Parallels66 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:14 pm
kirraha wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:50 pm
After their last buff with AP bot option the IB is very useful in both smallscale and wb ?
its no where near enough value to take one over a kotbs/SM still, KotBS/SM do more damage, bring better utility, bring better defensives, bring better buffs. the new AP pump is nice but its not such a big deal in the grand scheme of things that other tanks can bring.
Well, i can rly talk out of the perspective of using them in WB, and they replacing our SM atm due to the AP boost it brings compared to SM. :)
the AP pump doesnt outvalue whispering winds unless you're running a full AP pump group specifically, but even then tbh, whispering winds probs outperforms told ya so due to the fact if other classes are AP pumping why not have 5cd reduced CDR for your dps to pump dps harder while getting AP fed from other classes like RP etc.

Ostabenny
Posts: 19

Re: [IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

Post#34 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:47 pm

IB punt mechanics at the moment are 100% fine. Short cool down, good range.

Aoe punt tactic with snare can be downright amazing in Wb play. Used at the right time you are a superstar.

IB is one of the better punting tanks in the game. I pray we get no changes here at all.

You aren’t ever going to get spammable aoe on an IB. It’s not the role. You aren’t going to get an aoe heal either, for example.

And as others have said - you get parry and block so often the knockdown is basically on cool down. So you’ve got a 10s cool down single target knockdown. Don’t **** with that, that’s awesome. Got some whispering winds? Whack a mole. If you are in the healer line with WW, it’s downright disgusting - outgoing heal debuffs and knockdowns for all.

At the moment IBs are really strong in small scale with 2h build (not me though I suck there), and totally useful in wb / large scale.

The biggest problem I see is that until you get to higher gear levels you need to slot AI and Rugged and seasoned vet for defensive play to be real tanks, which limits the utility you can slot. And 2h small scale can be tough till you get the stats from higher gear also. So some tuning down on auras and pots would increase IB desirability at lower levels.

Once you get full warlord or sov though ooooohhhhh laddie

ChicagoJoe
Posts: 168

Re: [IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

Post#35 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:39 pm

kmark101 wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:39 pm
The fundamental issues of the IB - as many topics pointed out before this one - are the following:

- physical damage type is vastly inferior in current gear level, IB armor debuff's flat amount did not keep up with it
- IB has zero aoe spammable (with any side effect), its like the only tank class in the game without it... why
- IB's buffs are inferior to knight, single target buffs should be much higher numbers to justify this, make 1 character super strong is what the IB should be about

Thats all.
Please correct me if I am wrong or confirm where I am correct.

It appears that some of the IB single target buffs are mostly useless as they don't appear to stack with other common buffs. E.g., Inspiring attack, Ancestors Fury don't add strength if they use a str potion, Guarded Attack doesn't add armor if they use an armor pot. Some of the other effects theoretically work but more of the main items are useless than on other tanks. Like inspiring attack not only doesn't buff my strength potting slayer, I need to use a tactic to debuff healers. I'm not sure but stubborn as stone resist doesn't probably stack with AM or KOTBS party resists.

While every class has some skills not usually usable - (e.g., WP armor buff not used in group with armor pots) IB seems to have a bunch issues with redundancy that ends up devaluing the skill. Destros mirrors focus on debuffs which seem to have more impact.

Maybe more/all IBs skill should stack since it they are only on one/two rather than group, or they should cancel debufs of that type.

Also seems like some of the best IB skills need a tactic to help work.

mubbl
Posts: 250

Re: [IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

Post#36 » Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:26 am

I think the ib has a real good tool kit. Maybe he dont have the good stat buffs. But who can give YOU 10% crit with a skill, while most are tactic based buffs(isnt 10% crit around sov value?)
Who can give YOU 25% parry (1/3 of cap)?
Which tank has acess to so many anti cc tools?
On top you get one of the best aoe punts in game if you take the tactic.
And if you want, you just get two tactics, that gives you up to ~20% less dmg taken
One of these tactics even gives you 10% block...
50% outgoing healdebuff.
Grudge gain tactics+ap for grudges spent.
Did i mentioned 20% crit debuff?

Do you need even more value? Or maybe another wb-builder?
Going back to cut more beards from stinky drawfes faces for my cloak.

User avatar
hammerhead
Posts: 248

Re: [IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

Post#37 » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:15 am

Well, IB has about the same number of active abilities as SM. You can just apply them in a more creative free manner. But in any case, about the same thing. Here is another point. For most tanks (and not only for example Dok/WP) buffs are aplied on the defensive target, while IB/BG must emphasize their choice by spending one extra press. It is this moment that prevents the parry buff from being distributed to the whole group as a RP prehot. This equilibrium on the keyboard is maddening, because it makes you press one and a half times more to do about the same. If the oath/protector had some kind of passive effect, then the meaning of these unnecessary gestures would be understandable.

Buffs don't stack, yes, but guarded attacks grant armor like blue pot. So if everyone drinks at 660, this is an extra three hundred points or equal to a set bonus for some classes.
Here the problem is not with the IB, but with the corrupted mechanics of auras, and while it is like this you will not fix it in any way.
By the way, at BG, the armor buff is added with pot. On the forum there is my post about it with screenshots of the getstat (if it has not been fixed).

About aoe. I don't think that if you add to one of the tactics as I suggested here - viewtopic.php?f=74&p=427724&t=39843&rec ... 10#p427724

something will change a lot. That is, you will see exactly an increase in the scoreboard. Another point is why this fluff is needed. If, like SM, I try to Gusting Wind as often as possible to maximaze Blessing of Heaven. Without additional effects, this AoE is only needed in pve and farming.

And so IB has a couple of unnecessary tactics and one ability that is not worth the spent points, with what you can put up with. The main problem is that it was robbed of its uniqueness. The BG has a superpunt / superknock, the BO has an execut, the SM just outdamage/outheal other two.
If it were not for the tuning of the BG with its autoparry, the almost same slow, etc., the IB remained a unique class for physical control. But now, as they say, neither fish nor meat. Or maybe this is his dignity. And if someone sees a good result, he will not say that you are playing an OP class.
(\|)o0(|/)

Popcorn001
Posts: 1

Re: [IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

Post#38 » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:32 pm

hammerhead wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:15 am
Well, IB has about the same number of active abilities as SM. You can just apply them in a more creative free manner. But in any case, about the same thing. Here is another point. For most tanks (and not only for example Dok/WP) buffs are aplied on the defensive target, while IB/BG must emphasize their choice by spending one extra press. It is this moment that prevents the parry buff from being distributed to the whole group as a RP prehot. This equilibrium on the keyboard is maddening, because it makes you press one and a half times more to do about the same. If the oath/protector had some kind of passive effect, then the meaning of these unnecessary gestures would be understandable.

Buffs don't stack, yes, but guarded attacks grant armor like blue pot. So if everyone drinks at 660, this is an extra three hundred points or equal to a set bonus for some classes.
Here the problem is not with the IB, but with the corrupted mechanics of auras, and while it is like this you will not fix it in any way.
By the way, at BG, the armor buff is added with pot. On the forum there is my post about it with screenshots of the getstat (if it has not been fixed).

About aoe. I don't think that if you add to one of the tactics as I suggested here - viewtopic.php?f=74&p=427724&t=39843&rec ... 10#p427724

something will change a lot. That is, you will see exactly an increase in the scoreboard. Another point is why this fluff is needed. If, like SM, I try to Gusting Wind as often as possible to maximaze Blessing of Heaven. Without additional effects, this AoE is only needed in pve and farming.

And so IB has a couple of unnecessary tactics and one ability that is not worth the spent points, with what you can put up with. The main problem is that it was robbed of its uniqueness. The BG has a superpunt / superknock, the BO has an execut, the SM just outdamage/outheal other two.
If it were not for the tuning of the BG with its autoparry, the almost same slow, etc., the IB remained a unique class for physical control. But now, as they say, neither fish nor meat. Or maybe this is his dignity. And if someone sees a good result, he will not say that you are playing an OP class.
In the name of "tuning" there have been a number of things destro and order class types have gotten that have created imbalances or unintended consequences. I think that is why the development team is pretty wary of additional modifications.

Ads
User avatar
zulnam
Posts: 257

Re: [IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

Post#39 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:05 pm

Speaking purely from a wb SnB perspective here:

IMO the new Told Ya So! tac really gave IB a strong boost for WBs. You can churn out 60 AP in less than 5 seconds easily; even more if you're focusing on this. For aoe/bomb groups that's huge. Remember the end goal is not to completely replace a tank, but have all 3 tank classes viable (and i rarely see a WB lead picky on tanks; not like they grow on trees).

As for improvements, It is a shame that some of our main buffs (Inspiring Attack, Guarded Attack, Vengeful Strike) do not stack. I like our st-buff role, but due to this I think it's a bit weak.

I think it would be best to reduce the increase of these buffs, but have them stack with pots/knight auras. Basically have IB buffs be their own thing; so you can't stack IB buffs with themselves but you can stack them with other buffs.

The decrease in this buffs would have to take place in order to not make them too strong (25%? maybe even more; or mix it with a decrease in timers, from 20s to 10s), but the payoff would be grand for organised groups.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Mara, SH

ChicagoJoe
Posts: 168

Re: [IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

Post#40 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:47 pm

zulnam wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:05 pm
Speaking purely from a wb SnB perspective here:

IMO the new Told Ya So! tac really gave IB a strong boost for WBs. You can churn out 60 AP in less than 5 seconds easily; even more if you're focusing on this. For aoe/bomb groups that's huge. Remember the end goal is not to completely replace a tank, but have all 3 tank classes viable (and i rarely see a WB lead picky on tanks; not like they grow on trees).

As for improvements, It is a shame that some of our main buffs (Inspiring Attack, Guarded Attack, Vengeful Strike) do not stack. I like our st-buff role, but due to this I think it's a bit weak.

I think it would be best to reduce the increase of these buffs, but have them stack with pots/knight auras. Basically have IB buffs be their own thing; so you can't stack IB buffs with themselves but you can stack them with other buffs.

The decrease in this buffs would have to take place in order to not make them too strong (25%? maybe even more; or mix it with a decrease in timers, from 20s to 10s), but the payoff would be grand for organised groups.
Yes, for a class built around single/duo buffs, not having them stack, even in a way less than 100%, is the real issue. You would rather have 2 KOTBS or 1 KOTBS and one heal SM EVERY time, because the IB simply can't add any comparable value even to its oath friend/guard since some/all the effects of a bunch in the tool kit don't stack.

The defensive m3 is also pretty useless, even in pve... maybe make the defensive m3 absorb for guarded target as well and I would slot it and use if my m2 bellows wasn't needed previously. That could be incredible utility when the slayer I am guarding is getting low and nothing else I am doing can allow the heals to catch up.

To someone who replied earlier, for guarded attack, are you saying the incremental armor adjustment adds over a green armor pot? Is that confirmed? Maybe it should add armor or remove a armor debuff.

These are tweaks that wouldn't make IB anywhere near as potent as KOTBS/SM or any of the destro tanks but would help a bunch.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 2 guests