[IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

[Ysaran]

Yes, you do have all of this, but remember, you don't have the time to use it.

Also, 400 crit one the ONE damage skill you'll have time to cast in a 10sec period ?
Better have 200dmg on 7-8 skills like most other tanks can have.

Yes... and no.
You don't have time to use certain skill in your "rotation", but you have to adapt to circumstances. In matter of survivability IB is probably the one with the wider toolkit.
The story of the 400 crit in SnB is quite a good example example of these "circumstances": we were in Reikland Hills SC and we were pushing a party to the wc. We reached a Shamy, his tank switched him the guard and all the party started to kite towards the wc. As we were pushing them using Challenge, Oathbound or Runic Shield would be pointless. We weren't receiveng any real damage because we were pushing. I just focused on dps and used Rock Clutch to stop him (it was the glorious 10s duration era ) and then armor debuf, crit buf, healdebuff,...
You are not a robot, you "ordinary rotation" surely doesn't let you much time for attacks, but if the MA call the focus on a target you can give your contribution, even SnB specced.

[Earthcake]

Double post, sorry

[Earthcake]

Yes, you do have all of this, but remember, you don't have the time to use it.

Also, 400 crit one the ONE damage skill you'll have time to cast in a 10sec period ?
Better have 200dmg on 7-8 skills like most other tanks can have.

Yes... and no.
You don't have time to use certain skill in your "rotation", but you have to adapt to circumstances. In matter of survivability IB is probably the one with the wider toolkit.
The story of the 400 crit in SnB is quite a good example example of these "circumstances": we were in Reikland Hills SC and we were pushing a party to the wc. We reached a Shamy, his tank switched him the guard and all the party started to kite towards the wc. As we were pushing them using Challenge, Oathbound or Runic Shield would be pointless. We weren't receiveng any real damage because we were pushing. I just focused on dps and used Rock Clutch to stop him (it was the glorious 10s duration era ) and then armor debuf, crit buf, healdebuff,...
You are not a robot, you "ordinary rotation" surely doesn't let you much time for attacks, but if the MA call the focus on a target you can give your contribution, even SnB specced.

I agree, when fighting ppl that do not fight back, you have more time to do things, but so do other tanks, and they are not crippled by having no career mechanic at that time

[hammerhead]

Many other people say that IB is a buffer with strong ST damage, excellent survivability and utility. Survival, which is only in the SNB build, where, with near zero damage and of all buffs only parry/crit is useful.

this is misinformation.
with proper gear (red eye/conq/epic weap) 2h is a damn stone. +25% parry buff, ini buff, +10% dodge/disrupt from weaps proc (either epic or sent), 900 magical absorb damage, AoE snare, KD, Punt, anti crit ability(these are the basis) and then you can spec for: self heal, double anti-snare (which also heal u) and speed buff (again, this also heal u on proc). Then you have M2. M2 makes you immortal for 5 seconds. If you don't like M2 you can use M3: 7200 damage absorb. Now add double pot and absorb pots. and now add you can have the highest armor in the whole game (where are the armor meta supporter now?), anti snare tactic, anti KD/stagger tactic.
Also, while SnB you can crit squishy for around 400 damage. it's not dps damage, but it helps bringing down enemies.

And in 2H, the damage is strong except for afking WE with the same utility, which is probably the only plus for the class.

LoL, i suppose you are one of those deftards with 1050 toughness and with Ancestral Inerithance, else i can't really undertsand your statement

What exquisite self torture. Have to change all the talismans now...

I don't even know how to convey this, probably in no way, but the fact is that WE (I will even keep silent about def spec) and Mara (SW, mSH and so on) have the same level of protection as 2H IB, by having their modest <300 tough. Because all IB survivability is tied to the shield. I don’t know why to play a class that gives out subpair demage while having less protection than an DPS. And by the way, did they ask to raise the damage in this topic? like it was about improving the quality of life.

[Ysaran]

Yes, you do have all of this, but remember, you don't have the time to use it.

Also, 400 crit one the ONE damage skill you'll have time to cast in a 10sec period ?
Better have 200dmg on 7-8 skills like most other tanks can have.

Yes... and no.
You don't have time to use certain skill in your "rotation", but you have to adapt to circumstances. In matter of survivability IB is probably the one with the wider toolkit.
The story of the 400 crit in SnB is quite a good example example of these "circumstances": we were in Reikland Hills SC and we were pushing a party to the wc. We reached a Shamy, his tank switched him the guard and all the party started to kite towards the wc. As we were pushing them using Challenge, Oathbound or Runic Shield would be pointless. We weren't receiveng any real damage because we were pushing. I just focused on dps and used Rock Clutch to stop him (it was the glorious 10s duration era ) and then armor debuf, crit buf, healdebuff,...
You are not a robot, you "ordinary rotation" surely doesn't let you much time for attacks, but if the MA call the focus on a target you can give your contribution, even SnB specced.

I agree, when fighting ppl that do not fight back, you have more time to do things, but so do other tanks, and they are not crippled by having no career mechanic at that time.

I see it from a different point of view. it's not matter of ppl fighting back or not, but rather a matter of reading the flow of the fight and decide which one of IB's many buffs use in wich moment. Sometimes to keep up all the buffs is just overkill.

IB's class mechanic give one of the highest armor/crit debuff, the highest wp buff, some really nice damage (grudge-scaling damage abilities) and one of the best punt in the game (midium range, 10s CD even with shield, no need of supplementar tactic). IB without class mechanic would be lame, imho.

[Ysaran]

I don't even know how to convey this, probably in no way, but the fact is that WE (I will even keep silent about def spec) and Mara (SW, mSH and so on) have the same level of protection as 2H IB, by having their modest <300 tough.

How?

Because all IB survivability is tied to the shield

How?

And by the way, did they ask to raise the damage in this topic? like it was about improving the quality of life.

Maybe is just my bad english, but i really can't understand what's your question

[hammerhead]

I don't even know how to convey this, probably in no way, but the fact is that WE (I will even keep silent about def spec) and Mara (SW, mSH and so on) have the same level of protection as 2H IB, by having their modest <300 tough.

How?

Because all IB survivability is tied to the shield

How?

And by the way, did they ask to raise the damage in this topic? like it was about improving the quality of life.

Maybe is just my bad english, but i really can't understand what's your question

You know, I could start a long monologue with the words of "IB, Jack of all trades..." and end with that judging by your rewriting of talents, he even has a fifth tactic. But at this stage it will be easier for me to agree with you by memorizing as a mantra that IB is a buffer.
I will leave the only right to myself to assert with which the Destro even agrees that IB is only needed in a maximum of two per WB same as BG. The problem is that if BG is less played tank on Destro side, then it is the second most popular tank in Order.

[Ysaran]

I don't even know how to convey this, probably in no way, but the fact is that WE (I will even keep silent about def spec) and Mara (SW, mSH and so on) have the same level of protection as 2H IB, by having their modest <300 tough.

How?

Because all IB survivability is tied to the shield

How?

And by the way, did they ask to raise the damage in this topic? like it was about improving the quality of life.

Maybe is just my bad english, but i really can't understand what's your question

You know, I could start a long monologue with the words of "IB, Jack of all trades..." and end with that judging by your rewriting of talents, he even has a fifth tactic. But at this stage it will be easier for me to agree with you by memorizing as a mantra that IB is a buffer.
I will leave the only right to myself to assert with which the Destro even agrees that IB is only needed in a maximum of two per WB same as BG. The problem is that if BG is less played tank on Destro side, then it is the second most popular tank in Order.

I still can't get your point. if you think i'm wrong, try explain me what's wrong. I can't see the thread tieing all your "arguments" (although you didn't really bring any, just some opinion)

[hammerhead]

How?


How?



Maybe is just my bad english, but i really can't understand what's your question

You know, I could start a long monologue with the words of "IB, Jack of all trades..." and end with that judging by your rewriting of talents, he even has a fifth tactic. But at this stage it will be easier for me to agree with you by memorizing as a mantra that IB is a buffer.
I will leave the only right to myself to assert with which the Destro even agrees that IB is only needed in a maximum of two per WB same as BG. The problem is that if BG is less played tank on Destro side, then it is the second most popular tank in Order.

I still can't get your point. if you think i'm wrong, try explain me what's wrong. I can't see the thread tieing all your "arguments" (although you didn't really bring any, just some opinion)

I have already answered here and and before that the only thing unique to IB is the parry/crit buff and that's it. The rest of what you have listed is in one form or another in other tank carrier.
- The crit debuff is same is BG, with tactics there is SM (imagine, there is even a higher value there).
- Willpowerbuff? for whom for the heal? Do you know how much 160 wp gives on average? 100 with a trifle HP. Is it strong for you to decide if on average my RP ST heal is from 1800 to 2800 (even hier if procs)
- Heal debuff does not work in rvr and badly at 24 by 24 it is specific for 6x6, roam or soloing scenes. Cross heal ? have you heard?
- Double Armor Debuff? Isn't it like that in BG? Moreover, out of the box there is also 25% armor ignoring and a touch debuff. How much armor does BO debuff from the first position without investing a single point in first tree? Does the tooltip differ greatly in 200 points?
- Avalanche? good luck to run to the shaman to get a slowdown (or knockdown / knockback from others) and again puffing to catch up with swallowing dots. Of course work better with shild, but IB chasing DPS with a shield in what situation can I imagine ... Many Chosen take similar tactics?
- Punt is only useful at 6 by 6 and is not needed every 10 seconds. Spam him in rvr? Well, if only for aesthetic pleasure.
- Bubble? he is not unique, he eats twice as much class resource as the analogous bubble from BG, works only for magic.
- Armor buff does not stuck (as it should be, unlike BG)
- tugh buff has a meager effect. As ussual (almost always see), Kobs have an tough/resist/heal aura (and not AP as someone wrote recently).
- Corporel buff is needed only to start 50% AA. Destro main magic damage hiter is spiritual.

So your arguments are the same private opinion. Once again, the point that you have been looking for for so long - IB is good in a small scale where you can control two DPS, in everything else:
he is not the best buffer
he is not the best single target dmg from other 5 tanks (which is generally strange for someone who does not have AoE)
outside of the SNB build, it has mediocre defense at the level of deff speced DPS
stacks poorly at 24 to 24

[Ysaran]

You know, I could start a long monologue with the words of "IB, Jack of all trades..." and end with that judging by your rewriting of talents, he even has a fifth tactic. But at this stage it will be easier for me to agree with you by memorizing as a mantra that IB is a buffer.
I will leave the only right to myself to assert with which the Destro even agrees that IB is only needed in a maximum of two per WB same as BG. The problem is that if BG is less played tank on Destro side, then it is the second most popular tank in Order.

I still can't get your point. if you think i'm wrong, try explain me what's wrong. I can't see the thread tieing all your "arguments" (although you didn't really bring any, just some opinion)

I have already answered here and and before that the only thing unique to IB is the parry/crit buff and that's it. The rest of what you have listed is in one form or another in other tank carrier.
- The crit debuff is same is BG, with tactics there is SM (imagine, there is even a higher value there).
- Willpowerbuff? for whom for the heal? Do you know how much 160 wp gives on average? 100 with a trifle HP. Is it strong for you to decide if on average my RP ST heal is from 1800 to 2800 (even hier if procs)
- Heal debuff does not work in rvr and badly at 24 by 24 it is specific for 6x6, roam or soloing scenes. Cross heal ? have you heard?
- Double Armor Debuff? Isn't it like that in BG? Moreover, out of the box there is also 25% armor ignoring and a touch debuff. How much armor does BO debuff from the first position without investing a single point in first tree? Does the tooltip differ greatly in 200 points?
- Avalanche? good luck to run to the shaman to get a slowdown (or knockdown / knockback from others) and again puffing to catch up with swallowing dots. Of course work better with shild, but IB chasing DPS with a shield in what situation can I imagine ... Many Chosen take similar tactics?
- Punt is only useful at 6 by 6 and is not needed every 10 seconds. Spam him in rvr? Well, if only for aesthetic pleasure.
- Bubble? he is not unique, he eats twice as much class resource as the analogous bubble from BG, works only for magic.
- Armor buff does not stuck (as it should be, unlike BG)
- tugh buff has a meager effect. As ussual (almost always see), Kobs have an tough/resist/heal aura (and not AP as someone wrote recently).
- Corporel buff is needed only to start 50% AA. Destro main magic damage hiter is spiritual.

So your arguments are the same private opinion. Once again, the point that you have been looking for for so long - IB is good in a small scale where you can control two DPS, in everything else:
he is not the best buffer
he is not the best single target dmg from other 5 tanks (which is generally strange for someone who does not have AoE)
outside of the SNB build, it has mediocre defense at the level of deff speced DPS
stacks poorly at 24 to 24

These are a lot of words for sure, but you adress none of the question you brought out yourself. I'll refresh your memory:

I don't even know how to convey this, probably in no way, but the fact is that WE (I will even keep silent about def spec) and Mara (SW, mSH and so on) have the same level of protection as 2H IB, by having their modest <300 tough.

How can WE/Mara/SW/mSH have the same level of protection of IB? I mean, really. How? What skill/spec/gear do they use?

Because all IB survivability is tied to the shield

How is IB's survivability tied to wearing a shield?

Also, what I said is:

IB's class mechanic give one of the highest armor/crit debuff, the highest wp buff, some really nice damage (grudge-scaling damage abilities) and one of the best punt in the game (midium range, 10s CD even with shield, no need of supplementar tactic).

and these^ aren't opinions, but facts. You can see the difference because facts can be proven, just log and see for yourself