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The Patch of Folly

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Shanell
Posts: 271

Re: The Patch of Idiocy

Post#21 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:17 am

Xameleon wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:00 am Can you stop crying already?
You see, kiddo, if this continues for so long it should mean that something wrong was done. No, the crying won't stop because whole two classes got their damage reduced by 20%.
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Akalukz
Posts: 1587

Re: The Patch of Idiocy

Post#22 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:25 am

Xameleon wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:00 am
Orontes wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:35 am My sense is engi players far outnumber magi. Some of the strongest and most organized guild(s) are Dwarf focused. It's not uncommon to see organized dwarf groups with many engi working together. There are also many high renown players that are engi. If all that is correct, what is the sense of those players to the March 18 Patch of Idiocy, and the halving of engi/magi bonus damage to Live levels by Powers that don't seem to understand the class at all?
Can you stop crying already?

By the way, i quickly checked your post history. All of your messages regarding balance and balance changes by devs had something in common. It is always "It feels like" "I think" "It should be". I get it, your opinion and criticism are VERY important, (but not exactly needed tho) but what about raw stats? What's your samplesize of data, that makes you "feel like it"? Whats up with the number of engi and magi that makes you "sensing" outnumbering? All i'm trying to say, is that you were never constructive. I haven't seen you bringing up some data or facts to the arguments, only feels and senses. And yeah, a lot of crying
This response if funny from a guy with 1 post talking about someone else's post history.
-= Agony =-

sighy
Posts: 259

Re: The Patch of Folly

Post#23 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:19 pm

Tbh this is more of a communication problem than a balance change problem. If it were a tooltip fix or something of the sort it wouldn't need an elaboration, but as is it changes how the class performs, under certain conditions and there should be a statement of intent, what the change seeks to address or achieve.

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: The Patch of Idiocy

Post#24 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:33 pm

Shanell wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:17 am No, the crying won't stop because whole two classes got their damage reduced by 20%.
Could you at least stick to the patch notes?
Dying is no option.

Orontes
Posts: 323

Re: The Patch of Folly

Post#25 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:49 pm

sighy wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:19 pm Tbh this is more of a communication problem than a balance change problem. If it were a tooltip fix or something of the sort it wouldn't need an elaboration, but as is it changes how the class performs, under certain conditions and there should be a statement of intent, what the change seeks to address or achieve.


Recognizing that class balance is always a sensitive topic and anything the Powers do is likely to have some level of blowback, I "think" (now I'm going to get in trouble for using an evidently taboo word) the Powers tend to go with explanations for changes that follow the path of least resistance. If something is a bug fix, the rhetoric shifts away from the Devs. They are simply correcting an error in the code, system etc. In the engi/magi recent patch, given the Dev that made the change doesn't play or really know either class, and is thus working from a level of relative ignorance: once the decision to reduce bonus damage was made (incorrectly in my opinion), my guess (another taboo word!) is the same Dev noted the tool tip for engi turrets states the damage will increase up to 20%. This then was the bug fix explanation out he was hoping for. Engi/magi pets are operating at 40%, but the engi turret says 20%, thus the patch notes explanation.

If the Dev had checked the magus pet tool tip, he would have noted it says damage increases up to 40%. If the Dev knew the history of the classes in question, he would have known the tool tip verbiage for the engi turrets was never changed back during 2016 engi/magi rework. Only the magus one was changed for whatever reason, likely the engi tool tip change was simply forgotten.

Thus we have individuals unfamiliar with classes making changes and giving explanations for those changes that are both incorrect, and the changes made don't actually address the original concern: in this case one ability for each class.

sighy
Posts: 259

Re: The Patch of Folly

Post#26 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:10 pm

Orontes wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:49 pm
sighy wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:19 pm Tbh this is more of a communication problem than a balance change problem. If it were a tooltip fix or something of the sort it wouldn't need an elaboration, but as is it changes how the class performs, under certain conditions and there should be a statement of intent, what the change seeks to address or achieve.


Recognizing that class balance is always a sensitive topic and anything the Powers do is likely to have some level of blowback, I "think" (now I'm going to get in trouble for using an evidently taboo word) the Powers tend to go with explanations for changes that follow the path of least resistance. If something is a bug fix, the rhetoric shifts away from the Devs. They are simply correcting an error in the code, system etc. In the engi/magi recent patch, given the Dev that made the change doesn't play or really know either class, and is thus working from a level of relative ignorance: once the decision to reduce bonus damage was made (incorrectly in my opinion), my guess (another taboo word!) is the same Dev noted the tool tip for engi turrets states the damage will increase up to 20%. This then was the bug fix explanation out he was hoping for. Engi/magi pets are operating at 40%, but the engi turret says 20%, thus the patch notes explanation.

If the Dev had checked the magus pet tool tip, he would have noted it says damage increases up to 40%. If the Dev knew the history of the classes in question, he would have known the tool tip verbiage for the engi turrets was never changed back during 2016 engi/magi rework. Only the magus one was changed for whatever reason, likely the engi tool tip change was simply forgotten.

Thus we have individuals unfamiliar with classes making changes and giving explanations for those changes that are both incorrect, and the changes made don't actually address the original concern: in this case one ability for each class.
I suppose you are referring to claims made by cqengi, but that doesn't necessairly have to be the whole story. Magus/Engi have faced long term critique(the classes not the players) that the pets are a bit of a ballache, die easy and make moving around a hassle. Removing the emphasis on staying in one spot for undisclosed amounts of time, without really taking any wind out of the proactive, mobile warband focused playstyle would be a fix toward that end. (Devil's advocate) In which context nerfing a staple of the classes, which rely on layering their numerous aoe effects to exert pressure doesn't make too much sense.

Orontes
Posts: 323

Re: The Patch of Folly

Post#27 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:05 am

sighy wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:10 pm
Orontes wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:49 pm
sighy wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:19 pm Tbh this is more of a communication problem than a balance change problem. If it were a tooltip fix or something of the sort it wouldn't need an elaboration, but as is it changes how the class performs, under certain conditions and there should be a statement of intent, what the change seeks to address or achieve.


Recognizing that class balance is always a sensitive topic and anything the Powers do is likely to have some level of blowback, I "think" (now I'm going to get in trouble for using an evidently taboo word) the Powers tend to go with explanations for changes that follow the path of least resistance. If something is a bug fix, the rhetoric shifts away from the Devs. They are simply correcting an error in the code, system etc. In the engi/magi recent patch, given the Dev that made the change doesn't play or really know either class, and is thus working from a level of relative ignorance: once the decision to reduce bonus damage was made (incorrectly in my opinion), my guess (another taboo word!) is the same Dev noted the tool tip for engi turrets states the damage will increase up to 20%. This then was the bug fix explanation out he was hoping for. Engi/magi pets are operating at 40%, but the engi turret says 20%, thus the patch notes explanation.

If the Dev had checked the magus pet tool tip, he would have noted it says damage increases up to 40%. If the Dev knew the history of the classes in question, he would have known the tool tip verbiage for the engi turrets was never changed back during 2016 engi/magi rework. Only the magus one was changed for whatever reason, likely the engi tool tip change was simply forgotten.

Thus we have individuals unfamiliar with classes making changes and giving explanations for those changes that are both incorrect, and the changes made don't actually address the original concern: in this case one ability for each class.
I suppose you are referring to claims made by cqengi, but that doesn't necessairly have to be the whole story. Magus/Engi have faced long term critique(the classes not the players) that the pets are a bit of a ballache, die easy and make moving around a hassle. Removing the emphasis on staying in one spot for undisclosed amounts of time, without really taking any wind out of the proactive, mobile warband focused playstyle would be a fix toward that end. (Devil's advocate) In which context nerfing a staple of the classes, which rely on layering their numerous aoe effects to exert pressure doesn't make too much sense.


Yes. I am referring to Cqengi's claims The Dev in question only correction to Cqengis various assertions was that Mist and Napalm's damage wasn't affecting resistance calculation, but resistance mitigation. Everything else he presented was not challenged, therefore I think Cqengi's depiction of events is accurate. It's also true engi/magi, as classes, have long seen complaints about pets dying too easily, lacking maneuverability, and long build up times. Halving their damage bonus weakens both classes, and again, going off of the recounting of events, doesn't even address the issue the Dev had. AOE in Cities will remain as before.

It is an uninformed patch that both missed its intended target and ended up weakening both classes for no purpose. The patch should be reversed.

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Asderas27
Posts: 190

Re: The Patch of Folly

Post#28 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:48 am

Another one of these. I sense this post disappearing soon
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Sofong
Posts: 554

Re: The Patch of Folly

Post#29 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:22 pm

they have buff and nerf every class.... so take it easy man.

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wargrimnir
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Re: The Patch of Folly

Post#30 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:22 pm

This thread is so last week.
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