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[IB] Masochistic class?

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sergteo
Posts: 43

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#21 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:21 am

This is why you have to use armor pot + offensive lini /pot (although this one is optional) even on 2h IB who has arguably less buttons to press than SnB, because you'd better use a debuff or a damaging skill rather than wasting the GC on guarded attack or vengeful strike.
It's just not worth, specially on rankeds where every decission counts even more than lets say city /rvr.
Make oathfriend buffs last 20 seconds and change the grudge mechanic to mirror the BG hate one, that's really the only thing IB needs (and delete overprotective)

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 979

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#22 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:54 pm

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:32 am
CountTalabecland wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:23 am This is all very dramatic. Most classes that you guard won’t need most of your buffs. Throw a toughness and armor pot on yourself and focus on keeping oathbound and ancestors fury up. Everything else is situational.
As well as snaring, armour debuffing and stripping blessings.
IB has the best tank snare in the game with earthshatter. Sever blessing is good but I don't even slot the armor debuff.

Its just not high enough at 100 grudge to worry about using it. Against healers in Sov I could maybe see some argument for it because you are trying to bring the lightest armor down even lower but with Slayer already having 60-70% armor ignore its just not that important to debuff armor as IB. You have to watch and be sure to have 100 grudge to get -800 and even then thats just not that much. RPs is AoE and WLs is better and always hits for -1000. Any less grudge and its a waste of a cooldown, you have more important stuff to be focusing on.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/80) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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Evilest
Posts: 168

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#23 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:12 pm

For masochistic class try carnage WE. Not masochistic enough? Drop the EoS kludge.

ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#24 » Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:47 pm

Earthcake wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 4:44 am
zulnam wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 1:21 am
Earthcake wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 7:54 pm to maintain buffs, most other tanks have to use a grand total of ZERO GCD.
No one takes SM in the group for their blade enchantments, i'll tell you that.
Maybe, but they still exist right ?

So SM and BO also buff their party whatever skill they use.
So we are at 4/5 other tanks. I think 4/5 qualifies at "most" other tanks.
Because Sm has more to offer than just stats that are otherwise overwritten by kobs/SM. Ib really does need some love, having to go up 3 skill trees to make 2h spec work just feels bad. And then the only real buff you offer is parry.

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Fey
Posts: 768

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#25 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:25 pm

20 second buffs and mirrored hate mechanic would go a long way. Long punt at 75 grudge would be even better.
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ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#26 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:39 pm

Fey wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:25 pm 20 second buffs and mirrored hate mechanic would go a long way. Long punt at 75 grudge would be even better.
The mirrored hate mechanic is the most important in my opinion, sometimes in small roam it’s just so hard to get 100 grudge before the fight ends, most times I’m at 30-40 by the time something dies. The tactic is just sad and has a 1 second internal cool down where the BG gets it on every hit and also has a channel to build grudge. Of course in cities and fort grudge is less of an issue, but I just figured since we do actually balance around ranked (the biggest lie ever told was that they don’t balance around small scale) IB 100% deserves some love and order could use more tanks. In small fights I can’t even get my 1k armor debuff and that is frustrating because it’s my only real debuff. BG truly has all its eggs in the same basket just look at it’s 2h spec, it doesn’t have to go up THREE skill trees to make sense.

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Koha
Posts: 178

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#27 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:51 pm

Life is made of choices. IB and BG have plenty, and that's great. Just don't put all your abilities in one sequencer.

SM/BO have to make choices at each stance change...

Some skills are not to be used at all : armor buff that does not stack with pots (most tanks, WP and DoK armor prayers...), others are situational. (for saving pots in pve it's ok).

Still IB has a good place : the funnier tank to play on order, perfect balance of dmg and utility, compared to SM and Kotbs that are too much damage or utility oriented.

Grudge HAS to be harder to build => IB earns heavy damage from it and don't spend as much grudge compared to BG (for keeping up the crit tactic for example) + overall less abilities are using grudge.

IB is meant to build and keep grudge high to do damage (it's like getting a train running, long to start but hard to stop), spending grudge is mostly defensive on IB not offensive.

BG needs to produce and spend hate all the time to do the same job and works at the opposite : keep hate high too improve defense not offensive and spend hate to improve offense.

I'm not saying it's harder nor easier just different and should not be mirrored or things shouldbe mirrored both ways and we will end with only one class.
Last edited by Koha on Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MA Kirth BG Melnibone SH Kikass
WH Merci SM Kohagen SL Koagul

nonfactor
Posts: 160

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#28 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:58 pm

Koha wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:51 pm Life is made of choices. IB and BG have plenty, and that's great. Just don't put all your abilities in one sequencer.

SM/BO have to make choices at each stance change...

Some skills are not to be used at all : armor buff that does not stack with pots (most tanks, WP and DoK armor prayers...), others are situational. (for saving pots in pve it's ok).

Still IB has a good place : the funnier tank to play on order, perfect balance of dmg and utility, compared to SM and Kotbs that are too much damage or utility oriented.

Grudge HAS to be harder to build => IB earns heavy damage from it and don't spend as much grudge compared to BG (for keeping up the crit tactic for example) + overall less abilities are using grudge.

IB is meant to build and keep grudge high to do damage (it's like getting a train running, long to start but hard to stop), spending grudge is mostly defensive on IB not offensive.

BG needs to produce and spend hate all the time to do the same job.

I'm not saying it's harder nor easier just different and should not be mirrored.
Read https://cakesplan.wordpress.com/2021/05 ... -analysis/ and come back here once you're done.

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Koha
Posts: 178

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#29 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:01 pm

nonfactor wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:58 pm
Koha wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:51 pm Life is made of choices. IB and BG have plenty, and that's great. Just don't put all your abilities in one sequencer.

SM/BO have to make choices at each stance change...

Some skills are not to be used at all : armor buff that does not stack with pots (most tanks, WP and DoK armor prayers...), others are situational. (for saving pots in pve it's ok).

Still IB has a good place : the funnier tank to play on order, perfect balance of dmg and utility, compared to SM and Kotbs that are too much damage or utility oriented.

Grudge HAS to be harder to build => IB earns heavy damage from it and don't spend as much grudge compared to BG (for keeping up the crit tactic for example) + overall less abilities are using grudge.

IB is meant to build and keep grudge high to do damage (it's like getting a train running, long to start but hard to stop), spending grudge is mostly defensive on IB not offensive.

BG needs to produce and spend hate all the time to do the same job.

I'm not saying it's harder nor easier just different and should not be mirrored.
Read https://cakesplan.wordpress.com/2021/05 ... -analysis/ and come back here once you're done.
I've red it before I posted.
This article sounds like the complain of an unaware NB user : '' all these abilities do not work with my NB chain'' ''I can't get to the last one before the end of the CD''.
MA Kirth BG Melnibone SH Kikass
WH Merci SM Kohagen SL Koagul

nonfactor
Posts: 160

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#30 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:17 pm

NB does not exist anymore but the issue persist.

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