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[Ironbreaker] The punt?

Ironbreaker, Engineer, Slayer, Runepriest
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mynban
Posts: 204

Re: [Ironbreaker] The punt?

Post#11 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:24 am

zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pm The fact that you played BG, IB, Knight and Chosen and only came away with "well IB punt is a bit sh*t innit" is staggering.

The class that can:
- single target buff strength, toughness, armor, crit chance, parry chance, AP pump and resistance
- while also buffing all that for itself + WS and 50% autoattack speed
- passively act as group AP pump
- get access to two root/snare breakers
- do all that in both SnB and 2H spec
- have incoming damage reduced by 15% virtually at all times
- while also having armor tactic and KD timer reduction by 50% tactic
- and a tactic giving an aoe cone punt which is the only one of it's kind on any tank
- and a heal which works both for SnB and 2H
- and a KD with an dot doing more than 600 damage in FIVE seconds

needs a bit of a fixxer-upper does it?

Keep asking for balance, here's how it will probably look:
Ironbreaker:
- removed autoattack speed buff from Stubborn as Stone
- Ancestor's Fury no longer buffs strength
- Seasoned Veteran: this effect can only trigger once every 10 seconds.
- Away with Ye: increased punt range by 20%.
You make it sound like all those options you listed are available at the same time and readily accessible for the duration of fight.
Spec specific things comes at the cost of not going 2H, and you listed quite number
Tactic specific things comes at the cost of not using better tactics
Buffs you listed would require almost directing all your resources and gcd to keep those buffs up and nothing else.

IB is like WH. They look cool, so we accept their shortcomings.

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mongothebarbarian
Posts: 11

Re: [Ironbreaker] The punt?

Post#12 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:56 am

yea the punt does suck and the class suffers from having too much to do while also being able to put out decent damage so you end up losing a lot of dps

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Martok
Posts: 1834
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Re: [Ironbreaker] The punt?

Post#13 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:49 am

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Get your tickets now, or be square.
Blame It On My ADD Baby...

Farrul
Posts: 282

Re: [Ironbreaker] The punt?

Post#14 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:34 pm

zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pmThe class that can:
- single target buff strength, toughness, armor, crit chance, parry chance, AP pump and resistance ...
And you need 3 hands, Einstein brain, some sort of time altering device. IB has many tools but few will be able to utilize even 75% of the kit effectively against a target dummy, fewer still in a real combat situation with all other stuffs going on. With nerfed b blocked( generally for the better) the issues with this class are apparent, i hope something is done about the short duration oath buffs. BG feels a lot more quality of life in comparison, like the modern updated version.

As for the IB punt, 25 grudge/10 sec cd is a lot of grudge, BG super punt does not even spend hatred, at least remove Rising Anger tactic and make the effect core, obsolete design.
Last edited by Farrul on Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

BeautfulToad
Posts: 631

Re: [Ironbreaker] The punt?

Post#15 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:44 pm

Honestly don't get why everyone suddenly thinks a tank's job is to punt one person for miles. About 75% of an SnB tank's job is guarding, and IB does that as well as, if not better than, other tanks.

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Earthcake
Posts: 251

Re: [Ironbreaker] The punt?

Post#16 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:54 pm

BeautfulToad wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:44 pm Honestly don't get why everyone suddenly thinks a tank's job is to punt one person for miles. About 75% of an SnB tank's job is guarding, and IB does that as well as, if not better than, other tanks.
When lvl10 and you don t have any other abilities sure, but the game continues after that

nonfactor
Posts: 160

Re: [Ironbreaker] The punt?

Post#17 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:17 pm

BeautfulToad wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:44 pm Honestly don't get why everyone suddenly thinks a tank's job is to punt one person for miles. About 75% of an SnB tank's job is guarding, and IB does that as well as, if not better than, other tanks.
Read the thread, it is about smallscale where punting is very important and any tank can guard.

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zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: [Ironbreaker] The punt?

Post#18 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:42 pm

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pm The fact that you played BG, IB, Knight and Chosen and only came away with "well IB punt is a bit sh*t innit" is staggering.
That is a textbook strawman.

No, that's an intro. The reply continues. It was a strawman if that was my entire post. Google the definition.

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pm50% autoattack speed
which bg gets passively without having to waste a gcd and getting hit by a magic attack

Passively with the use of a tactic slot. In fact, most classes get it that way. Out of the top of my head, no single class gets 50% AA from a core ability.

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pmget access to two root/snare breakers
No one specs Avenging the Debt.

You don't spec into AtD.

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pmhave incoming damage reduced by 15% virtually at all times
shield only so it does not apply to smallscale

True. But again, you will not keep everything if you ask for your punt. Something will be taken. Ready to lose this?

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pmwhile also having armor tactic and KD timer reduction by 50% tactic
only used by low lvl ibs to make up for bad gear

Bringing even low lvl IBs up to snuff with more well equiped tanks. And KD timer reducer can be used at any level.

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pmand a tactic giving an aoe cone punt which is the only one of it's kind on any tank
Not used in smallscale.

True. See above.

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pmand a heal which works both for SnB and 2H
Grumble N Mutter? Do you really spec that for smallscale?

You can, yes.

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pmand a KD with an dot doing more than 600 damage in FIVE seconds
Every sane IB would trade that puny damage for a mirror of BG's punt.

You would trade your damage for a mirror of BG's punt.

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pmsingle target buff strength, toughness, armor,
useless because it doesnt stack with pots and other buffs

You can't have both toughness and armor. Pick one, use the other self buff.
Same goes for STR. Yes you could use a STR pot because derp, or you could use a WS liniment that also gives crit chance and buff yourself with STR.

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pmresistance
only corporeal

True. This will probably not be taken since it's not that OP to begin with.

nonfactor wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:45 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:46 pmcrit chance, parry chance, AP pump
Which is nice of course but what I said that these three things do not make up, in my opinion, for the lack of a proper punt which is a number one tool for making plays in smallscale. Most kills are done by punting enemy tanks thus testing their reaction time to switch guard. This is why BO and SM are deemed lesser tanks because even though they do very good damage and offer some utility it is all pointless if you can't punt enemy tanks. You list a lot of tools and one cannot possibly use them all in a single build so it sounds like you are overselling the class, I could make a list of abilities like you did for every class and make it good on paper but in practise IB is just GCD starved short punted inferior version of BG that is overshadowed by KOTBS.
IB is not GCD starved. IB is a thinking man's class. You have many abilities and they're all good, but all of them require a situation to use, forcing you to make correct split second decissions every fight in order to be good. If you want a "press 1, now press 2, now press 3" type of tank play knight or chosen.

Literally every tank in the game is overshadowed by Knight, in no small thanks to some really biased people having the dev's ears (i'd give names, but that would be a trap). Knight is the only tank that gets FIVE group utility abilities/effects in SnB (3 auras, Dirty Tricks, Stay Focused!) while also having access to all of them in 2H and even more utility thanks to aoe debuffs. Knight is not comparable to anything because the class is very OP when it comes to utility. The only reason it's not visible is because very few people play it, since it hits like a grandma wielding a wet noodle.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, SM, Mara, SH, BG

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Earthcake
Posts: 251

Re: [Ironbreaker] The punt?

Post#19 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:05 pm

zulnam wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:42 pm
IB is not GCD starved. IB is a thinking man's class.
Good for you that you can outsmart time, but for us mortals, that's not an option.

BeautfulToad
Posts: 631

Re: [Ironbreaker] The punt?

Post#20 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:39 pm

zulnam wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:42 pm Knight is not comparable to anything because the class is very OP when it comes to utility. The only reason it's not visible is because very few people play it, since it hits like a grandma wielding a wet noodle.
I found knights were the most popular tank on order, or maybe a very close second to IB. Do you not just get diminishing returns on KotBS after having more than one in a party, you get the three auras and that's it, no need for a second? No other class is like that.

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