IB not enough Grudges

Ironbreaker, Engineer, Slayer, Runepriest
Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use
Your topic MUST start with your class name between hooks (IE : [Shaman] blablabla)
User avatar
Battlefield
Posts: 326

IB not enough Grudges

Post#1 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:04 pm

Hello Devs, i haven't played RoR for about 10 months and after returning i wanted to

level up my Ironbreaker. Later i started to notice In combat without group that always

not enough Grudges simply to use absorb ability by cooldown (Runic shield cost 30) or

knockback (Away with Ye cost 25), in combat with group if noone directly attacking your

Oath Friend also not enough Grudges, meanwhile the dots might be on you from Shaman,

Magus or Sorc. BG has no such issues at all ! I know about special mechanic tactic for,

but why IB should use it and loose 1 tactic slot but BG not cause has it passive? In

other words in this case BG has +1 free tactic slot and it is not fair for multiplayer game!


Runic shield 30 Grudes and 6 mastery points cost vs Shield of Rage cost only 10 Hatred

Away with Ye 25 Grudges cost vs Exile 30 actions points cost for BG

Enraged Beating ability gives additional free Hatred for BG and does not require two-

handed weapon, just 6 mastery points cost vs Grudge-Born Fury requires great weapon and

14 mastery points cost... -8 mastery points for IB to get it and no Grudges.


1. Make tactic Rising Anger passive for IB without needed to be slotted likewise BG has,

gain 5 Hatred/Grudges when hit an enemy

2. Absorb ability Runic shield must cost 10 Grudges the same as for BG 10 Hatred cost Shield of Rage.

or if you don't want to make a Rising Anger as passive tactic for IB

3. When an enemy attacks an Ironbreaker, it gains 10 Grudge instead of 5.


I hope you will make the appropriate changes.

Ads
User avatar
Battlefield
Posts: 326

Re: IB not enough Grudges

Post#2 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:38 pm

I would like to play for this class all the time but my critical mind makes it clear that this class has problems...

Dackjanielz
Posts: 27

Re: IB not enough Grudges

Post#3 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:22 pm

Think the idea is that IB is the defensive mirror between the two classes which is why its like that, but i see what you're saying.

It has been suggested before by others to make Rising anger passively built into the class.
Another popular one is having some of the buff durations last longer so you don't need to mash buttons so quickly all the time to keep it all up.

User avatar
Fallenkezef
Posts: 1423

Re: IB not enough Grudges

Post#4 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:06 pm

I'm a 39 full tank IB and I have noticed this to a certain extent. Now the easy answer is to keep an eye on who is getting smacked and switch oath friend, but that can be tricky and a real pain.

When I or my friend is getting hit, IB is an awesome class. When they ignore you it feels very useless, especialy when you are full tanking spec. SM and Knight do their thing regardless.

I think longer buff durations may be a little over powered. However a more reliable grudge building system does seem the better idea.
Alea iacta est

Dackjanielz
Posts: 27

Re: IB not enough Grudges

Post#5 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:04 pm

Yeah agreed.
The amount of times destro just completely ignores me and runs over my WB and i'm powerless to stop them....

Its shameful and embarrassing when i'm trying my best to save everyone n i cant even scratch the paint of the armour they wear because all my skills are blanked out except for the basic strike lol.

The only reason i mentioned the buff duration is thats what others have requested, i think the idea is to reduce the "piano skills needed" to keep ppl buffed up.

Whatever happens if IB gets a touch up i will most likely appreciate it whichever they decide.

User avatar
Sinisterror
Posts: 699

Re: IB not enough Grudges

Post#6 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:00 pm

Fallenkezef wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:06 pm I'm a 39 full tank IB and I have noticed this to a certain extent. Now the easy answer is to keep an eye on who is getting smacked and switch oath friend, but that can be tricky and a real pain.

When I or my friend is getting hit, IB is an awesome class. When they ignore you it feels very useless, especialy when you are full tanking spec. SM and Knight do their thing regardless.

I think longer buff durations may be a little over powered. However a more reliable grudge building system does seem the better idea.
Well depends how you think about it. BG has longest punt in the game, Only class with 5 second KD in the game. BG gets core Absorb and Terrifying foe tactic usable in every spec, which means you need 600 toughness with self buff to have Soft cap toughness all the time. BG used to have skill called Blade of Rhuin which was 10 sec Dot costing 15 Hatred, it was first skill in path of Malice which is now Enraged Beating. They also created new skill and it took EB's old spot in path of malice and is called Malignant Strike. 2h Kd for class that has the longest KD and Punt in the game already? Sure makes sense and they dont have to sacrifice anything for it either=)

I mean at least give IB's Grudge for attacking without needing tactic. I would also increase all 10 sec Oathbuffs to 15 sec or make them ignore GCD. Now with 1.5s GCD IB is even worse off than before when it was 1.15s. Earthcake wrote amazing thing about IB and Time Management but cant find the link.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

marcskk
Posts: 3

Re: IB not enough Grudges

Post#7 » Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:00 am

You just need to Oathfriend switch around and get grudges up pretty fast for IB.

Cyrylius
Posts: 269

Re: IB not enough Grudges

Post#8 » Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:31 am

I won't say a lot about ib, i don't have one, but judging by what i heard you shouldn't compare ib and bg. Ib has grudge issues cause it has to use it much more than bg which only needs it for CD and furious howl (and absorb occasionally). You are also expected to keep it at 90+ all the time, so even more incentive to not spend it too much. Ib has much more buffs to apply while it's survivability isn't tied to grudges as much as a bg. Mechanics might be similar, but it works in very different way for both classes and comparing them might lead to wrong conclusions.

Edit: fact checked myself, ib has two skills that you might want to actively stay at topped grudges for- namely, knee capper and stone breaker. Meaning, it's basically just a resource and that's why oathfriend gives you more grudges the less of them you have at the moment. For bg hate it's not something you spend, you want to get to 100 hate and stay there as it provides you with avoidances, improves CC capabilities and significantly buffs most of your utility skills. Of course you have different resource management between the two classes.
RoR doesnt deserve being taken seriously.

Ads
Farrul
Posts: 167

Re: IB not enough Grudges

Post#9 » Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:34 am

Cyrylius wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:31 am I won't say a lot about ib, i don't have one, but judging by what i heard you shouldn't compare ib and bg. Ib has grudge issues cause it has to use it much more than bg which only needs it for CD and furious howl (and absorb occasionally). You are also expected to keep it at 90+ all the time, so even more incentive to not spend it too much. Ib has much more buffs to apply while it's survivability isn't tied to grudges as much as a bg. Mechanics might be similar, but it works in very different way for both classes and comparing them might lead to wrong conclusions.
IB both spends more grudges and regenerates far less, the latter is the imbalance between these two classes.

BG has the advantage of high hatred regenerating channel attack low in the tree available to all specs and weapon setups. IB has no equvialent to it. Making Rising Anger core function and removing the passive is long overdue. In smaller scale it's basically a 3 tactic class since these tactics( Rising anger/ Dwarven riposte) are mandatory to make the class function, this is unfair as pointed out many times in several threads.

Furthermore IB is the class to suffer the most from the GCD nerf so this would be a step in the right direction, in addtion to that both oathbuffs (Ancestor's fury/ Oathbound) could see their duration increased to 15s. Runic shield / Away with YE(punt) could do with a cost reduction, their grudge cost is set unreasonable high for the value they provide.
Cyrylius wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:31 amEdit: fact checked myself, ib has two skills that you might want to actively stay at topped grudges for- namely, knee capper and stone breaker. Meaning, it's basically just a resource and that's why oathfriend gives you more grudges the less of them you have at the moment. For bg hate it's not something you spend, you want to get to 100 hate and stay there as it provides you with avoidances, improves CC capabilities and significantly buffs most of your utility skills. Of course you have different resource management between the two classes.
This is not correct and i suggest you try the Ironbreaker to get a realistic idea of how it plays. (fact check again there are more abilities like Oathstone, a lot of IB skills scales with higher grudges and feel ineffective at a low grduge level, can't grasp this at theory level and must be experienced)

As IB(Mine is RR82-8x i can't remember) you never want low-mid grudges since this puts you in danger of not being able to perform basic tank tasks, furthermore tactics like sweet revenge that requires to be above 50 grudges to activate( The BG equvialent only requires hatred spending making it far superior mechanically). Grumble'an mutter is at risk if the IB is low grudges and something like Oathstone would suck indeed at low grudges, IB finds itself starved of Grudges plenty of times (especially in shorter/smaller scale battles). These classes are comparable and the logic conclusion is that an imbalance exist(likely because BG is a newer addition to the game and IB was never updated by the original devs )

Play both classes and realize how much more comfortable BG feels to play.

joneees
Posts: 16

Re: IB not enough Grudges

Post#10 » Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:15 am

IB best buffs in the game, also pretty much the best burst out of any mdps in the game and you cry about grudges in solo play... funny (I also play IB)
E: punt could use some work, but so could SM/BO punts, and IB has a much higher burst with a little bit of setting up... So tough luck I guess.
Last edited by joneees on Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest