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[Warrior Priest] - Grace

Knight of the Blazing Sun, Bright Wizard, Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest
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Arkkon
Posts: 2

Re: [Warrior Priest] - Grace

Post#491 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:29 pm

All I really want to be happy with playing a Grace WP is Divine Strike back. Sure, at 30 I'll switch to Sigmar's Radiance, but I don't want to wait until level THIRTY to play the class the way I remember it. I feel it was intended to be played this way - an in-your-face healer that could help lead pushes with PBAoE healing, starting right in the middle of T1 ORvR.

I understand, having spent the last hour scouring the forums for previous talk about bringing back Divine Strike, that it's a difficult task. Creating new abilities is prohibitively difficult, changes must be balanced with DoK, and so on. However, the reasoning for removing Divine Strike and the DoK equivalent during Live was laughably absurd. If we can't re-create it, then perhaps we could make Sigmar's Radiance/Transfer Essence available earlier?

What do you folks think?

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Landaren
Posts: 226

Re: [Warrior Priest] - Grace

Post#492 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:03 pm

to OP in lower tiers.

Earliest I would consider it reasonable to be introduced would be like mid t2, divine strike made the class way to strong in t1.

Introducing this play style around 18ish would help people adapt better to it later in the game.

Dabbart
Posts: 2248

Re: [Warrior Priest] - Grace

Post#493 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:30 pm

I've always disliked how fundamentally different the playstyle of certain classes can become at a certain level. The reason I hated t2. Some classes had their defining abilities, and some where just meh for half the tier. WP is heavily on that, for the melee side anyways.

I really missed divine strike as I was leveling up. Once you get 30+ though, you stop feeling so strongly about it. I always felt that grace was designed for PvE. You need X amount of healing every few seconds and the occasional spike. That's what I use it for. farming.
Azarael wrote: It's only a nerf if you're bad.

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DirkDaring
Posts: 425

Re: [Warrior Priest] - Grace

Post#494 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:36 pm

I for one hated the change to Divine Strike, the original version was an AOE melee heal every swing to everyone around you, not just in your little group.

Then i guess people whined about it being OP or something, as it was removed and changed to a single target heal, and Sigmar radiance added and made to be group only . which is what we have now .

Hated the change to what we have now, even though Divine strike Aoe healing was not the best, being able to heal everyone around you in or out of your group was nice . compared to hiding in the back spaming group heal/group cleanse.

it was way more fun. and thats more important, if you want to be a healbot thats fine, but not everyone wants to hide in the back, some actually like being midfield, or up front along side the melee, adding AOE support heals.

played my wp to 90 on live as a healbot, as i had several toons 85 + and it was a snooze fest.

freshour
Banned
Posts: 835

Re: [Warrior Priest] - Grace

Post#495 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:33 pm

Yeah this thread is super friggin long, but Aza has several pretty good ideas for the class. He also stated he is waiting until t4 (infamous two weeks) before he even considers listening to possible changes.

But I do agree with a lot of your points. WP has nothing compared to Devour Essence for their Grace tree (Sacrifice) combined with a prayer that is literally half as good lol. So we will never heal as much as them or deal as much damage as a 50% AA increase with dual weild while most of our damage is white in itself is just asking for imbalance. But who knows, we might get some base ability increases to counter the fact that DoK's will always out DPS us in both melee trees and severely outheal us in the Grace/Sac tree. But before you waste any breath, be warned that any mention of making Grace comparable to Sacrifice will be met with endless (but you get AOE detaunt bro). You've been warned!!! But it is really cool to see another melee Healer out there. Glad you didn't use the term "DPS WP" as it really doesn't exist outside of a very very specific 6 man group.

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Sigimund
Posts: 658

Re: [Warrior Priest] - Grace

Post#496 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:34 pm

The trouble is, I don't remember Grace WPs being very viable back when we had Divine Strike. Removing it did not suddenly break a successful and balanced play style.

Potentially a nice toy, especially while leveling, but it is not the silver bullet that will fix this spec.

bloodi
Suspended
Posts: 1725

Re: [Warrior Priest] - Grace

Post#497 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:41 pm

Sigimund wrote:The trouble is, I don't remember Grace WPs being very viable back when we had Divine Strike. Removing it did not suddenly break a successful and balanced play style.

Potentially a nice toy, especially while leveling, but it is not the silver bullet that will fix this spec.
Absolutely, however the difference between having your main healing tool at level 8 and at level 30 is not something to sneeze at.

Hell, i think you got it even before that at retail, you could do part of t1, t2 and t3 with divine strike. Then Grace fell off in spectacular fashion once you entered t4.

With the current one, you have 2 levels, two, before level 32 where grace stops being viable with you having to enter t4.

2 levels.

Luth
Posts: 2840

Re: [Warrior Priest] - Grace

Post#498 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:49 pm

Sigimund wrote:The trouble is, I don't remember Grace WPs being very viable back when we had Divine Strike. Removing it did not suddenly break a successful and balanced play style.

Potentially a nice toy, especially while leveling, but it is not the silver bullet that will fix this spec.
Yes, indeed i think this was implemented to "fix" the only weakness the healbot WP/dok had: no strong single target heal. That this heal is off their career resource and uses action points instead is another joke.
Imo everything changed on the grace path in that patch was just a side effect.

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gokkentime
Posts: 10

Re: [Warrior Priest] - Grace

Post#499 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:14 pm

I really don't want my grace priest to become a dps, I wanted it to be a buffer healer. or just a more active healer than sitting in the back.

in order to do this it needs some kind of tool, to heal when it is out of melee ranged like a small buff sorta like morale that regens rf, when inside of combat.

there are many situations where grace just becomes useless due to design, like castle defends and holding doorwars and choke points. I cannot gain RF at all in these situations, so I just supplicate and cast heals, which is not really effective.

Here it needs a tool to cast heals.

I like the idea of grace of sigmar, healing and building RF and then if they heals did not have the 20%/40% nerf I would just touch of the devine all the time. I love the the idea of having Pious restoration in my retotation. I love the whole wacka mole aspect of this class, that there is constant some clicking targeting and awareness! its fast paced and really fun!

About damage I think the damage of this class is fine, warriorpriests are tough as nails and can heal, so are they in tabletop. The can fight another hero for ages, and keep healing but the lag enough damage to really kill tough things.

Soldiers and common thiefs kills, as a true priest of Sigmar you CLEANSE! if the healing value of melee abilities was better thats all i want, because as a healer you win fight by exhaustion not swiftness.

Here are my favoured ideas
1: making grace and assault heal more reliable, I don't mind people blocking the attacks, thats why you have weapen skill.

2. gives us something to do when your group defends something, like a small RF bonus or something while being in combat. Also I would really like to have something to use my RF on, like Pious restoration, I mean its an instant party hot, if it healed more I would apply it all the time!

3. handling the MAD, I would love to have a buff I gain everytime i hit something that puts strength into willpower, and negates the penalty of fanatism, or something.

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: [Warrior Priest] - Grace

Post#500 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:36 pm

Here are a few of the ideas I think would fix some of our problems. The idea of this being that we are healers that fight in melee, mostly lifetap and thus use strength as our healing stat, to reduce some of the MAD. Some of these changes would be mirrored to DoK of course.

Sigmar's Radiance - Change damage to spirit (lessen need for weapon skill to penetrate armor). Damage to healing ratio starts at 36% at rank 1. Goes up by 1% per rank of spell maxing out at 75% at rank 40 (requires 15 points in grace). This ties in half of the current Grace of Sigmar tactic.

Swap prayer of devotion and prayer of absolution. Grace benefits more from the extra armor per rank, Salvation can make more use from the healing aura.

Greave of Sigmar tactic now causes sigmar's fist to increase strength, toughness, and initiative. No longer removes any stats from enemy. Fits more with defensive nature of the WP, and helps more at keeping us alive.

Move tactic Leading the Prayer from grace to 7th slot Path of Salvation. Because the aura moved.

Refreshing Radiance moved to slot 11 Path of Salvation.

Cleansing Power moved to slot 11 Grace. Seems more appropriate to have the AoE dispel for the less healing spec that can have some issues with too much RF generation.

Grace of Sigmar. Original effect was added to spell, see above. Moved to slot 7 Path of Grace. New effect - Sigmar's Fist, Sigmar's Vision, and Divine Assault now affect you in addition to your defensive target. This helps keep you alive and slightly reduces the need to swap targets as often. (This could be too powerful, and might need to half Divine Assault self heal when done this way, or remove divine assault from the list)

Sigmar's Shield changed. 30ft range. No cost. 15s cooldown. Bless target warbandmate for 15s. Each time that ally is attacked within 100ft of you, you will deal spirit damage to the enemy. Your ally is healed for X% of the damage dealt. (Should end up being close/higher than 1/3 of a TotD cast). You will lose 20 RF each time this occurs. This effect can only happen once every 0.5s.

The prevalence of spirit damage on the life taps removes the need for weapon skill in order to increase our damage based healing output. Weaponskill would only be needed to increase damage with nonlifetaps, and of course for extra parry. Making that a stat for someone who would want to do more damage (wrath).
Extra defensive stats in tactics allow for more survivability without trading as much offensive (read healing) itemization to achieve it.

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The rest of these changes mostly affect wrath or base tactics, I figured I might as well continue since I'm already going.
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Divine Justice tactic changed - Whenever an ally triggers Prayer of Righteousness, you will deal (equal to 66% of aura) damage to your offensive target as well. {That damage is how much it increased the aura by originally} Provides a little more focus, and some incentive to run the aura, which is what a tactic is supposed to do.

Soulfire - Now instant cast. Costs RF. 10s cd. Wrath needs some RF dump.

Absence of Faith - 50% heal debuff. Standardization.

Hammer of Sigmar - Now can only be used when target is below 35% health. 30s cooldown. Consumes all of your RF. Deals 2% additional damage per 5 RF consumed.

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Divine Reward tactic changed. Instead of making next attack free, returns 30AP. 3s cooldown added.

2H weapon passive should penetrate parry, instead of block.

Tomes should reduce ap regeneration equal to how much RF they generate. Consistency in RF generation. Would reduce risk of 1h+tome grace becoming more powerful than intended with the above changes. Wouldn't hurt Salvation much, they might not even notice.

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