but its notanarchypark wrote:I think grace WP is similar with tank, absorbing dmg for others.
[Warrior Priest] Path of Grace
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- shaggyboomboom
- Posts: 1230
Re: [Warrior Priest] Path of Grace
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Re: [Warrior Priest] Path of Grace
I've been taking more of a look at T4 Grace for if I decide to rank up my WP. I like the concept of melee healing and I'd rather play a different class for back-line healing, so...
There seems to be a few controversies that I don't understand:
1. DA states that it does spirit damage, while SR (at least on the career builder) seems to be physical damage? Does this mean SR demands weapon skill and DA does not? As our two major melee healing abilities, it seems absurd to have split stat requirements for them.
2. Since Sigmar's shield does not heal based on any damage, is it affected by healing reducing tactics and does it scale with willpower? Assuming it is and does, it seems to be completely counter-productive to a full-strength DF/Fanaticism build, despite being a grace action.
3. I assume we are completely unable to proc Divine Warding with SR and DA due to the fact these two can not crit on the heal portion?
4. Is it really even worth using any salvation abilities with no willpower, DF and Fanaticism slotted in T4, assuming you're in melee range? That is an enormous amount of reduced healing for casted heals... However, if we don't slot those two tactics and go full strength, we are considerably reducing our healing output with DA and SR.
5. Do willpower, FD and Fanaticism affect absorption type abilities such as Divine Light? This seems like a tasty ability to take for a Grace priest, assuming they don't.
I'm using a lot of casted heals in T1 at the moment, but the stats barely make a difference to the output. Between that and the lack of the two heal reducing tactics, my casted heals are still fairly decent. I can imagine this is absolutely not the case in T4 where stats are more biased.
There seems to be a few controversies that I don't understand:
1. DA states that it does spirit damage, while SR (at least on the career builder) seems to be physical damage? Does this mean SR demands weapon skill and DA does not? As our two major melee healing abilities, it seems absurd to have split stat requirements for them.
2. Since Sigmar's shield does not heal based on any damage, is it affected by healing reducing tactics and does it scale with willpower? Assuming it is and does, it seems to be completely counter-productive to a full-strength DF/Fanaticism build, despite being a grace action.
3. I assume we are completely unable to proc Divine Warding with SR and DA due to the fact these two can not crit on the heal portion?
4. Is it really even worth using any salvation abilities with no willpower, DF and Fanaticism slotted in T4, assuming you're in melee range? That is an enormous amount of reduced healing for casted heals... However, if we don't slot those two tactics and go full strength, we are considerably reducing our healing output with DA and SR.
5. Do willpower, FD and Fanaticism affect absorption type abilities such as Divine Light? This seems like a tasty ability to take for a Grace priest, assuming they don't.
I'm using a lot of casted heals in T1 at the moment, but the stats barely make a difference to the output. Between that and the lack of the two heal reducing tactics, my casted heals are still fairly decent. I can imagine this is absolutely not the case in T4 where stats are more biased.
Re: [Warrior Priest] Path of Grace
You are correct. SR needs Weapon Skill while DA does not. Gearing for Grace can be a balancing act for sure with all the stat requirements.Rathael87 wrote:1. DA states that it does spirit damage, while SR (at least on the career builder) seems to be physical damage? Does this mean SR demands weapon skill and DA does not? As our two major melee healing abilities, it seems absurd to have split stat requirements for them.
Did some testing last night, and Sigmar's Shield does not appear to be affected by DF/Fanaticism, nor by any increases/decreases in Willpower. The heal is a fixed amount.Rathael87 wrote:2. Since Sigmar's shield does not heal based on any damage, is it affected by healing reducing tactics and does it scale with willpower? Assuming it is and does, it seems to be completely counter-productive to a full-strength DF/Fanaticism build, despite being a grace action.
Seems logical, since they are lifetaps instead of heals.Rathael87 wrote:3. I assume we are completely unable to proc Divine Warding with SR and DA due to the fact these two can not crit on the heal portion?
If I am playing Grace and in melee range, I'd rather whack something with Sigmar's Radiance than bother casting a heal. Like you said, with a "proper" Grace build (tactics and equipment) you won't have any reason to bother casting a Salvation ability anyways.Rathael87 wrote:4. Is it really even worth using any salvation abilities with no willpower, DF and Fanaticism slotted in T4, assuming you're in melee range? That is an enormous amount of reduced healing for casted heals... However, if we don't slot those two tactics and go full strength, we are considerably reducing our healing output with DA and SR.
I'll try to remember to test Divine Light tonight.Rathael87 wrote:5. Do willpower, FD and Fanaticism affect absorption type abilities such as Divine Light? This seems like a tasty ability to take for a Grace priest, assuming they don't.
Interested in the Grace playstyle but don't know where to start? Check out my Grace guide!
Check out my Damage Calculator. Also includes extra RoR calculators! -Updated for 01/25/24 patch!
Check out my Damage Calculator. Also includes extra RoR calculators! -Updated for 01/25/24 patch!
Re: [Warrior Priest] Path of Grace
Divine Light is NOT negatively affected by Divine Fury nor Fanaticism. Multiple tests yielded exactly the same amount of absorption with or without the negative healing talents equipped. Additionally, Divine Light is NOT affected by Willpower.Rydiak wrote:I'll try to remember to test Divine Light tonight.Rathael87 wrote:5. Do willpower, FD and Fanaticism affect absorption type abilities such as Divine Light? This seems like a tasty ability to take for a Grace priest, assuming they don't.
Interested in the Grace playstyle but don't know where to start? Check out my Grace guide!
Check out my Damage Calculator. Also includes extra RoR calculators! -Updated for 01/25/24 patch!
Check out my Damage Calculator. Also includes extra RoR calculators! -Updated for 01/25/24 patch!
Re: [Warrior Priest] Path of Grace
That's pretty awesome. DL definitely worth picking up for a supportive grace build then.
Hit r40 on my WP and gave some casual t4 a try. I was disappointed to learn that lifetaps are completely ineffective on keep lords. That on top of the fact that that ramming the doors usually gives you no melee targets to hit makes Grace almost completely useless on keep takes.
Grace seems quite powerful in the right circumstances. We need open fights with melee targets and a guard with healing support. All these things are available to an organised warband, but not on keep takes.
Hit r40 on my WP and gave some casual t4 a try. I was disappointed to learn that lifetaps are completely ineffective on keep lords. That on top of the fact that that ramming the doors usually gives you no melee targets to hit makes Grace almost completely useless on keep takes.
Grace seems quite powerful in the right circumstances. We need open fights with melee targets and a guard with healing support. All these things are available to an organised warband, but not on keep takes.
- peterthepan3
- Posts: 6509
Re: [Warrior Priest] Path of Grace
Grace is very ineffective in large RvR. It's definitely a small-scale spec. If you are running as Grace in RvR, you are honestly doing your realm a disservice.
Re: [Warrior Priest] Path of Grace
Yeah I'm starting to see that. It's a damn shame because I love the concept of Grace.peterthepan3 wrote:Grace is very ineffective in large RvR. It's definitely a small-scale spec. If you are running as Grace in RvR, you are honestly doing your realm a disservice.
There are just way too many situations where team-mates are dying and there is no opportunity to heal. The only time Grace can shine in oRvR is in committed fights and pushes (which is probably less than 50% of oRvR with all the funnels and careful morale building)... and salvation priests can heal just as much during those pushes anyway. Grace offers nothing extra other than an insignificant amount of damage when pushing in.
It feels like, for Grace to be viable in these situations, their casted heals need to be able to do a respectable amount... a bit less than a salvation priest could do... but then be able to heal for more when they finally do get a chance to be in melee.
I am really disappointed with the fact that Grace healing is dependent on the two damage tactics. If you consider the SR tactic mandatory, that's THREE tactics that are completely mandatory. That completely defeats the point of tactics, which are supposed to give you flexibility in different situations.
A few ideas i would probably consider looking at:
(1) Remove the healing reduction from the damage tactics. Melee WP's casted heals are already vastly inferior to willpower-geared priests regardless. There's no need for the tactic to make them more inferior. This makes the damage tactics more mandatory for Grace, but at least boosts casted heals a bit and validates willpower/strength gear (like ruin) a bit more. This also validates the casted-heal tactics for melee WP such as Exalted Defenses and the Willpower one.
(2) Delete Grace of Sigmar and make those numbers baseline (or not, considering point 4 below) or change it completely. This sort of tactic (increasing output from one of the core healing actions) is too mandatory. This permanently occupies a tactic slot while it exists, defeating the purpose of tactics. Ranking up the mastery tree should be the main way to strengthen actions in the mastery line, not slotting tactics.
(3) Give Divine Assault a base-heal component like SR so that it always does something even against keep lords or when hitting tanks when wearing low-RR gear. Reduce damage scaling if necessary to keep well-geared grace in-line.
(4) If possible, cause SR to deal spirit damage so that there is not a split requirement for weapon skill between DA and SR.
I'm not sure how Grace of Sigmar would even be deleted or swapped out without client control, but I hate it. Changing it completely would also be very strange considering the tooltips can't be changed. I just really think it's a plague on the mastery line, to be forced to slot it just to perform.
Re: [Warrior Priest] Path of Grace
Or, the experimental changes (which were bloody awesome) need to be implemented.
Interested in the Grace playstyle but don't know where to start? Check out my Grace guide!
Check out my Damage Calculator. Also includes extra RoR calculators! -Updated for 01/25/24 patch!
Check out my Damage Calculator. Also includes extra RoR calculators! -Updated for 01/25/24 patch!
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Re: [Warrior Priest] Path of Grace
Oh did i miss something? What was these experimental changes?Rydiak wrote:Or, the experimental changes (which were bloody awesome) need to be implemented.
The "look ma, I posted on the forums" award goes to...
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2 Warfare80
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Re: [Warrior Priest] Path of Grace
Interested in the Grace playstyle but don't know where to start? Check out my Grace guide!
Check out my Damage Calculator. Also includes extra RoR calculators! -Updated for 01/25/24 patch!
Check out my Damage Calculator. Also includes extra RoR calculators! -Updated for 01/25/24 patch!
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