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[WH] [N00b] Can someone help to understand what I did wrong?

Knight of the Blazing Sun, Bright Wizard, Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest
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Juppstein
Posts: 34

[WH] [N00b] Can someone help to understand what I did wrong?

Post#1 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:01 pm

Today I was in Highpass in the PvE area, walking towards the warcamp when a Chosen approached and attacked, he was 17, I am 24. I got totally owned by the guy in less than 30+ seconds (congrats on a flawless kill to that Chosen, btw) and did not stand a chance.

Here is the combat log (changed the name of the chosen to PlayerX)
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

You gain 5460 experience.
Target is out of range
PlayerX's Ravage hits you for 190 damage.
PlayerX's Tooth of Tzeentch hits you for 60 damage.
Your Torment hits PlayerX for 33 damage. (253 mitigated)
Your attack critically hits PlayerX for 11 damage. (209 mitigated)
PlayerX's attack hits you for 82 damage. (49 mitigated)
PlayerX's Dizzying Blow hits you for 145 damage. (42 mitigated)
PlayerX's attack hits you for 102 damage. (30 mitigated)
Your attack critically hits PlayerX for 2 damage. (187 mitigated)
PlayerX's Tooth of Tzeentch hits you for 147 damage. (43 mitigated)
Your Torment hits PlayerX for 0 damage. (153 mitigated) (103 absorbed)
You parried PlayerX's attack.
Your ability hits PlayerX for 0 damage. (123 mitigated) (5 absorbed)
PlayerX's Ravage hits you for 190 damage.
PlayerX's Tooth of Tzeentch hits you for 60 damage.
PlayerX's Tooth of Tzeentch hits you for 60 damage.
PlayerX's Seeping Wound hits you for 113 damage.
Your Absolution hits PlayerX for 19 damage. (210 mitigated) (58 absorbed)
Your Burn, Heretic! critically hits PlayerX for 14 damage. (159 mitigated)
PlayerX's Ravage hits you for 190 damage.
PlayerX's attack hits you for 102 damage. (30 mitigated)
Your attack hits PlayerX for 1 damage. (127 mitigated)
Your Torment critically hits PlayerX for 0 damage. (212 mitigated) (103 absorbed)
PlayerX's Repel hits you for 159 damage. (47 mitigated)
PlayerX's Seeping Wound hits you for 113 damage.
PlayerX's Dizzying Blow hits you for 145 damage. (42 mitigated)
You parried PlayerX's attack.
PlayerX parried your attack.
Your Absolution hits PlayerX for 18 damage. (206 mitigated) (63 absorbed)
Your Burn, Heretic! hits PlayerX for 9 damage. (104 mitigated)
PlayerX blocked your Razor Strike.
PlayerX's attack hits you for 102 damage. (30 mitigated)
Your attack hits PlayerX for 1 damage. (127 mitigated)
Your attack hits PlayerX for 8 damage. (81 mitigated)
PlayerX's Ravage hits you for 190 damage.
Your Trial By Pain hits PlayerX for 11 damage. (66 mitigated)
PlayerX's Seeping Wound hits you for 113 damage.
Your Trial By Pain hits PlayerX for 11 damage. (66 mitigated)
PlayerX's attack hits you for 102 damage. (30 mitigated)
Your Trial By Pain hits PlayerX for 0 damage. (34 mitigated) (43 absorbed)
You parried PlayerX's Withering Blow.

....this went on for a short while but I lost the log of the last part. Though it did not look much different to the above :D
Now, first let me tell you that I certainly do not think that something fishy was going on there. I just want to know if this is what a WH in T3 should expect to happen when he is attacked by a chosen in 1v1. No clue if he used pots (I didn't).

The last time I played a WH last time about 5 or 6 years ago in live, so you can assume I forgot everything about how this game works in regards to mdps vs tank classes.

Educate me (git gud comments are somehow valid contributions to the discussions as well) :D
Nuln-Hergig-Drakenwald-RoR
Osimus Battmann - WH T3
Dumathor Dunkelbier - IB T3

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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: [WH] [N00b] Can someone help to understand what I did wrong?

Post#2 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:07 pm

He's level 17 which means he just got into mid tier

In high pass, a t3 area

Bolster is a hell of a thing


That's what I'm guessing happend

I don't know how your fight whent down based on just a combat log

My suggestion vs tanks is firstly don't waste finished on burn heretic, it's always better just to use abaso, second pop feinting position so that your torment will ignore armor even if you not attacking from the back
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Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: [WH] [N00b] Can someone help to understand what I did wrong?

Post#3 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:10 pm

His high armor combined with toughness wrecked you. It also looks like you've got really low strength combined with weapon skill. Do you have talismans in every piece of your gear? Do you use stat pots?
Also, the amount of mitigation on torments says that you've not used feinted positioning or, proper movement to get onto his back while that skill is on cooldown.
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GodlessCrom
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Re: [WH] [N00b] Can someone help to understand what I did wrong?

Post#4 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:13 pm

If you were too near the warcamp, he may have had a damage buff as well, though it doesnt look that way from the combat log.
Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king!

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Juppstein
Posts: 34

Re: [WH] [N00b] Can someone help to understand what I did wrong?

Post#5 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:31 pm

Thanks for the input so far.

Yes it was pretty near to the warcamp.

I only have some very low ballistic talis on my weapons. Nothing on the armor because I just got the T2 SC set the day before and only got 2 parts of the T3 PvE at that moment in time.

And no, I did not use pots. This is my first char here in T3 so money and profession skills are a rarity in my book :)
Nuln-Hergig-Drakenwald-RoR
Osimus Battmann - WH T3
Dumathor Dunkelbier - IB T3

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1896

Re: [WH] [N00b] Can someone help to understand what I did wrong?

Post#6 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:30 pm

the lowbie chosen had maybe decent gear for his level, combined with the mega bolster for being a lowbie in T3 made his stats really epic for T3.
this combined with you most likely not getting enough Torments through his back, resulting in him simply blocking and parrying your hits, until eventually enough of his hits landed on you, winning the fight.

both WE/WH can kill tanks, if they do everything correctly and get enough burst out during the first 5-10 seconds. however, a tank who knows what they are doing, can easily counter these assassin classes by simply parrying and blocking everything. don't expect many victories against defensive tanks who specialize in surviving and outlasting their enemies in combat.

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GodlessCrom
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Re: [WH] [N00b] Can someone help to understand what I did wrong?

Post#7 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:32 pm

Ballistic skill doesnt affect any WH skills on this server IIRC. Strength, weapon skill, and melee crit are all the damage stats you need.
Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king!

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Hexen
Posts: 7

Re: [WH] [N00b] Can someone help to understand what I did wrong?

Post#8 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:02 pm

Having recently been in the lower tiers as a WH myself, here are some of my thoughts on this. Got a bit lengthy, apologies for that. I hope it is helpful to you.

Judging by the combat log, you had no bullets active during the fight. Bullet damage is spirit based and thus is mitigated by spirit resistance rather than armour, which is obviously good for you when going up against a def tank. Now you were fighting a chosen, who can buff his own resistances (vs spirit, corporeal, elemental damage) via aura, but even so they would still be capped at 40% mitigation (vs the 75% armor gives against physical damage when at cap).
Due to this, abso spam (or really any finisher, as they all proc bullets) can be quite effective in t1 and t2/t3 when you find yourself locked in a battle against a meat shield who keeps you permasnared and prevents you from getting into his back. Aside from that, tank gear in the lower tiers is very low on initiative, which means they have a very high base "to be critically hit" rate. Capitalize on that by using the Fanatical Cleansing tactic. You should have that anyway, as Judgement is at your level the only mastery path worthwhile imo.
To complement this further, you can specifically run Blessed Bullets of Purity when engaging tanks or mdps, which debuff initiative even more and thus give you extra crit as well as lower your own chance to be critically hit. You are able to switch between bullets while incognito, so you can pick the appropriate ones for whomever you are about to attack.

Another thing: This may be because this is just a partial log and the ability was on cooldown, but it looks like you did not use the disarm, even though you got several parries. 4 seconds of stopping the incoming damage is not a huge factor in a lengthy fight against a defensive tank (it definitely is against mpds though), but still would have given you a bit of an advantage.
I would also stress the usefulness of FP especially for tank fights, because, as mentioned above, tanks will typically keep you snared during fights, making it more difficult to get to their back. Even with FP you should still try to though, because you'll want to get out ouf their parry/block arc as much as possible. Smart tanks will try to shut you down during your FP period, because the damage you apply during that time will often decide the outcome of the fight. Prepare to be knocked down or punted away by those guys when you pop FP. Luckily they are relatively rare and dealing with them comes down to experience.

However, even with all of this in mind, you may still very well have lost simply due to the bolster effect, as was pointed out by the others. What you essentially need to understand about lower tier pvp: Your level does not matter that much, even considering the additional tactic slots you get at 20/30 and additional abilities. What really matters is the quality of your gear relative to your current level. If you wear Obliterator at rank 17, when it's still brand new and shiny, you get amazing stats thanks to the bolster, especially because low levels get bolstered to rank 33 IIRC, whereas at 24 you will probably only get bolstered to 31 or even 30? It does make a difference, especially with regards to mitigation. So don't beat yourself up too much about losing to lowies. If you still wear Obliterator at 24, and you probably will, as the next best set is only available at 26-29, you will not get as strong a stat boost. So if your 24 and only wear greens from level 17, that Chosen probably did indeed have a massive stat advantage over you. On the other hand, if you use this system to your advantage, you will be absolutely competitive at any level in the lower tiers, and to some degree even in T4 at sub 40.
Try to get Devastator and maybe some RvR influence stuff if you can, other than that make sure that you at least always wear the most recent pieces from the regular renown gear vendor in Altdorf (and get the jewels from him too!) and slot strength talismans. Don't need to be the super expensive ones, greens, which you can get for a bit of silver on the auction house, will suffice. If those from your level range are still too expensive, buy some T1 level green talismans instead. They usually give them away for basically nothing, and having 7 +8 str pieces in your stuff is still way better then having none.
Stat and Armor Pots are nice to have, but not necessary. If gold is an issue, don't waste your coins on low tier alchemy stuff, because it's insanely expensive on order AH. You'll be fine without it. Healing potions in my experience also only become really relevant in T4, when people get serious about double potting.

Also: Take Razor Strike and Trial by Pain from your hotbar and forget that they even exist. Slight exaggeration, but really only a slight one. Back on live I did use them every once in a while for very specific pve tricks, but that was all the utility I personally ever got out of them.
Hexenschreck - WH 40/51

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Juppstein
Posts: 34

Re: [WH] [N00b] Can someone help to understand what I did wrong?

Post#9 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:18 pm

Can I report you for being too usefull? /jk Thanks a lot for the insight, I'll take it and run with it.
Nuln-Hergig-Drakenwald-RoR
Osimus Battmann - WH T3
Dumathor Dunkelbier - IB T3

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