WP - New ability in Wrath, is it viable?

[nailinthehead]

The potential for disparity is ability terms is the utility in celerity which is incredibly good and the cast time in soultfire which is incredibly bad but cant be properly fixed but as a band aid WP have accelerated intimation after using Hammer of Sigmar which cuts cast times by 50% which can serve to facilitate soulfire (and other things such as a fast rez).

The thing is, that soulfire is a very weak dot (I have 20 points spent in wrath tree and it's 738 dmg over 9 sec), for which to apply you have to stand in the middle of the fight, so if setbacks are taken in the account it simply isn't worth the hassle. What's more - there is no synergy between Soulfire and Hammer of Sigmar as HoS should be used after Soulfire is applied so it could hit with the dot. The lack of synergy between abilities is one of the biggest problems of melee WP + most abilities require a tactic to actually work + crit values are low. I don't think I ever seen 1k crit on anything other than undergeared SH or Sorc with my WP, even when I ran around 800 str unbuffed. By comparision DoK critted me today for like 1,2k with Wrecking Agony (pre-mitigation value) in 1v1 situation. Maybe this is worth looking into?

No Wrath WP can justify dropping DF, Fanaticism, HD or IR for guilty soul. It's not a tactic that is usable because there's no room for it.

That. Plus dot values are too low while the tactic procs out of only few abilities. If it procced out of AA it would be little bit more viable option although still dropping IR would be painful.

[Mystry]

DoK has Divine Fury, Murderous Intent, Khaine's Blessing, Khaine's Imbuement, Curse of Khaine, and Terrifying Aura as good tactics for a DPS build. Which four do they pick, and which ones do they not use? If they take Terrifying Aura they have to lose a damage tactic. Same book, different page.

Divine Fury, Murderous Intent, Khaine's Blessing, Terrifying Aura.

The exact same thing that WP gets. The thing is that DoK gets even MORE benefit from it because they are already dual wielding, meaning that they have a much MUCH lower base attack time for the 50% AA buff to work on, AND it double dips because of Celerity.

In fact, the core of (almost) everything that causes such big differences between DoK DPS and Wrath DPS is the fact that DoK can dual wield and WP can't.

[Rydiak]

DoK has Divine Fury, Murderous Intent, Khaine's Blessing, Khaine's Imbuement, Curse of Khaine, and Terrifying Aura as good tactics for a DPS build. Which four do they pick, and which ones do they not use? If they take Terrifying Aura they have to lose a damage tactic. Same book, different page.

Divine Fury, Murderous Intent, Khaine's Blessing, Terrifying Aura.

The exact same thing that WP gets. The thing is that DoK gets even MORE benefit from it because they are already dual wielding, meaning that they have a much MUCH lower base attack time for the 50% AA buff to work on, AND it double dips because of Celerity.

In fact, the core of (almost) everything that causes such big differences between DoK DPS and Wrath DPS is the fact that DoK can dual wield and WP can't.

I agree completely on those points, but just to be fair it means that the DoK doesn't get a healing debuff, whereas the WP can get one from an ability (i.e. non-tactic). So a give-and-take does indeed exist, even if it might be less impactful than it should be.

[retekelek]

Spoiler:

DoK has Divine Fury, Murderous Intent, Khaine's Blessing, Khaine's Imbuement, Curse of Khaine, and Terrifying Aura as good tactics for a DPS build. Which four do they pick, and which ones do they not use? If they take Terrifying Aura they have to lose a damage tactic. Same book, different page.

Divine Fury, Murderous Intent, Khaine's Blessing, Terrifying Aura.

The exact same thing that WP gets. The thing is that DoK gets even MORE benefit from it because they are already dual wielding, meaning that they have a much MUCH lower base attack time for the 50% AA buff to work on, AND it double dips because of Celerity.

In fact, the core of (almost) everything that causes such big differences between DoK DPS and Wrath DPS is the fact that DoK can dual wield and WP can't.

I agree completely on those points, but just to be fair it means that the DoK doesn't get a healing debuff, whereas the WP can get one from an ability (i.e. non-tactic). So a give-and-take does indeed exist, even if it might be less impactful than it should be.

True but also wp-s healdebuff 10 sec cd ability, dont deal damage (the gcd take time from using a damaging abilits) and if u have to swich target just after u used it than u have to wait the ability cd to use it again and also im not sure but think its a cleanse able curse.

Whit Dok u have to sacrafice a tatic slot for it, but than u have one of the best healdebuff of game uncleansable and whit a moderate gear/rr u can keep it up constatly whitout any problem. No gcd to use and u can swich targets whit out worryng about ability cd.

[Snoxx]

A rather simple way to buff the wrath tree would be adding a damage component to the heal debuff. A low-end damage number is enough, just make it a damaging ability.

The result would be more chances to critically hit and thus more chances to proc AA haste and Guilty Soul.

As we just learned from the latest postings in this thread, the major advantage of DoK dual wield is having more chances to proc stuff. So what does the WP need to become competitive? More chances to proc stuff. See my suggestion above.

[Mystry]

A rather simple way to buff the wrath tree would be adding a damage component to the heal debuff. A low-end damage number is enough, just make it a damaging ability.

The result would be more chances to critically hit and thus more chances to proc AA haste and Guilty Soul.

As we just learned from the latest postings in this thread, the major advantage of DoK dual wield is having more chances to proc stuff. So what does the WP need to become competitive? More chances to proc stuff. See my suggestion above.

I swear to god, I'm going to get an aneurysm if someone mentions Guilty Soul again.

WRATH WP CANNOT FIT GUILTY SOUL INTO THEIR TACTICS. EVER. UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

You can't drop Divine Fury or Fanaticism because the bonus damage is way more important, you can't drop Hasted Divinity because auto attack damage is a huge component of being melee, and you can't drop Intimidating Repent or you immediately melt from AoE in the melee fight.

Want to buff Wrath? Fuse Divine Fury and Fanaticism into one Tactic and add another 10% parry and auto attack haste on top of it. That'll free up a slot for Guilty Soul and put us on (roughly) the same page as DoK with their dual wielding.

[Rydiak]

A rather simple way to buff the wrath tree would be adding a damage component to the heal debuff. A low-end damage number is enough, just make it a damaging ability.

The result would be more chances to critically hit and thus more chances to proc AA haste and Guilty Soul.

As we just learned from the latest postings in this thread, the major advantage of DoK dual wield is having more chances to proc stuff. So what does the WP need to become competitive? More chances to proc stuff. See my suggestion above.

I like this idea a lot. Make a Proposal for it and you'd have my support for it.

[nailinthehead]

A rather simple way to buff the wrath tree would be adding a damage component to the heal debuff. A low-end damage number is enough, just make it a damaging ability.

Not gonna fix anything, it would make things worse, as not only it will be cleansable but also would become defendable.

[Snoxx]

True but also wp-s healdebuff 10 sec cd ability, dont deal damage (the gcd take time from using a damaging abilits) and if u have to swich target just after u used it than u have to wait the ability cd to use it again and also im not sure but think its a cleanse able curse.

Yes it's a cleanse-able curse.

I am very thankful the RoR devs made this skill better than on live servers, now it's a useful skill. But despite this, I usually don't even spec it, because when running in a group, my groupmates have better healdebuffs. Using mine would be a completely wasted gcd. No additional effect, no damage.

Whit Dok u have to sacrafice a tatic slot for it, but than u have one of the best healdebuff of game uncleansable and whit a moderate gear/rr u can keep it up constatly whitout any problem. No gcd to use and u can swich targets whit out worryng about ability cd.

Given how many debuffs a melee DoK creates with his skills and procs (and even his groupmates create more debuffs thanks to Covenant of Celerity), the constantly re-applied heal debuff from DoK is truly un-cleanse-able.

[Snoxx]

A rather simple way to buff the wrath tree would be adding a damage component to the heal debuff. A low-end damage number is enough, just make it a damaging ability.

Not gonna fix anything, it would make things worse, as not only it will be cleansable but also would become defendable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it's already possible to parry the healdebuff, despite being a no-damage ability.