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Worst class.... WH

Knight of the Blazing Sun, Bright Wizard, Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest

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abezverkhiy
Posts: 93

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#121 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:36 am

Starx wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:03 am
I see a lot of people calling this class (WH/WE) stealth gankers and honestly thats total false advertisement.

Stealth in this game is T R A S H

30 sec CD, 30 sec uptime... you aren't using stealth in WAR like you do in any other game you are familiar with the archetype. You gank just like any other class has to, you find a hiding spot you sit there (not in stealth because you cant) you watch ppl come by and you make your move. Now that move is to stand still for 3 seconds so they dont see the easily spotted stealth vfx, then WALK up them in stealth and PRAY they dont tele after your opener because if they do its just game over, you dont have pounce, charge, ranged CC etc... you just lost bc of server lag.

You would much rather just have pounce, be a RDPS, anything but stealth... its a **** meme. There's no reason for it to not be 100% uptime and not drain any AP honestly so this class can actually have an advantage in being... stealthy. Otherwise theres no reason to gank on this class over say a DPS AM (king of the jungle atm) or something like WL that actually have mobility and honestly better burst and honestly is more survivability AND CAN KITE PPL and has good utility.

it's all so tiresome

idk what it is, have we been totally powercreeped into irrelevance by things like MSH/ASW because we were already bottom barrel since t2 was the cap on this server. WE has it better than WH bc of things like destro tanks having armor debuff, and mara/dps dok. but man it just feels like this class was left in the dust.
Nearly stopped playing my WH mostly for reasons outlined. Anyone can stay hidden in trees etc while waiting for prey (which is good but do not have to wear a hat for doing that), 3 sec cast time is a bummer but most, most of it is being unable to close gaps. I remember playing rogue in WoW in old times - every rogue always had crippling poison which slowed target by 50%, 2.5 stuns and one teleport to do the job. Thief in GW2 has a bunch of teleports and a bunch of stealth abilities and some CC as well. It is a hard life rogues have in WAR/ROR.
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Sinisterror
Posts: 94

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#122 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:05 am

Stealth should be 1 minute long and no ap cost. Also Stealth cant be broken, maybe if u have lot of ini you would have some text etc " witch elf near ". When attacking from stealth we/welf will be invisible for everyone except target 3-4 seconds and can only take dmg from the target. Also you can you re-stealth instantly within 10 seconds of attacking from stealth for 10 seconds and have 20 % movement speed buff. This way we/wh can do some dmg to backlines maybe even kill someone and re-stealthing to get away from enemy horde.

WH/WELF should have 25 % more crit dmg naturally, and tactic would give 25% crit dmg and 25% armour pene. I think we/wh should have 50 % aoe disorient skill, even melee attaks would take 0,25-0,5 seconds. Take other disorient aoe skills like from engineer away, equally from someone on destro side also. Slice/Razor Strike would be automatically aoe but do 20 % less dmg for everyone but target.

Elixirs/Relics Should give party buffs. Sancti oil would give 20% movement speed buff to party for 10 seconds.
50% armour ignore one would give 25 % armour ignore to your party for 7 seconds.
Disrupt one would give 15 disrput/dodge to party for 15 seconds.
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Fey
Posts: 466

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#123 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:06 am

Agree that stealth should be 1 min and no ap cost. The rest, lol.
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jokerspsycho
Posts: 244

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#124 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:08 am

Sinisterror wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:05 am
Stealth should be 1 minute long and no ap cost. Also Stealth cant be broken, maybe if u have lot of ini you would have some text etc " witch elf near ". When attacking from stealth we/welf will be invisible for everyone except target 3-4 seconds and can only take dmg from the target. Also you can you re-stealth instantly within 10 seconds of attacking from stealth for 10 seconds and have 20 % movement speed buff. This way we/wh can do some dmg to backlines maybe even kill someone and re-stealthing to get away from enemy horde.

WH/WELF should have 25 % more crit dmg naturally, and tactic would give 25% crit dmg and 25% armour pene. I think we/wh should have 50 % aoe disorient skill, even melee attaks would take 0,25-0,5 seconds. Take other disorient aoe skills like from engineer away, equally from someone on destro side also. Slice/Razor Strike would be automatically aoe but do 20 % less dmg for everyone but target.

Elixirs/Relics Should give party buffs. Sancti oil would give 20% movement speed buff to party for 10 seconds.
50% armour ignore one would give 25 % armour ignore to your party for 7 seconds.
Disrupt one would give 15 disrput/dodge to party for 15 seconds.
U just want to blow up healers in the opener in large scale n run away dont u?

More on topic, this is the first game I've played where stealth is more gimmicky than a class staple along with the stealthed openers being rather weak maybe so you dont feel bad if you dont get a stealth opener?

Hard to make adjustments to rogue like classes. U make them good in city, they will likely become kinda busted in small scale since they apparently already have good pump/drain set up. Changes like this could just be busted really and it makes it harder for a dev to look at a thread and take it seriously when changes like this are proposed.

Elemint
Posts: 112

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#125 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:19 am

waaaghlord wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:14 am
“Worst” class in the game gets the best spec in the game.

RoR.builders - Witch Hunter
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Kinja
Posts: 8

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#126 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:01 pm

jokerspsycho wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:08 am
U just want to blow up healers in the opener in large scale n run away dont u?

More on topic, this is the first game I've played where stealth is more gimmicky than a class staple along with the stealthed openers being rather weak maybe so you dont feel bad if you dont get a stealth opener?
But that's the thing, that's what WHs/WEs were designed for back in the day. I played live from 2008(started in the beta) to mid 2010(i basically stopped around the time it turned into musical chairs with BOs and bomb squad central) and they would explode any healer or rpds they opened up on. That was their job, they would go around the fight and hit the enemy back lines taking out some of the healers and rpds and then either dying or managing to flee. Hell, WEs even exploded some of the tanks early on until they nerfed them. I wish people would go look up some of the old PvP videos and see how fun they were back then. The class feels nowhere near as fun or useful anymore, you get outdps'd by the other 2 melee classes even tho they also have better survivability than you and even tho you still have your awesome toolset of CCs it's pretty much negated by the fact that the game uses 30s resists to all CC instead of DRs like other games. I haven't played on RoR nearly enough to claim any sort of expertise and i won't presume to tell the devs how to do their job but imho Unstoppable is one of the major issues i see with the WH/WE playstyle, i think the game might be better if it was either replaced with different buffs for each CC or replaced completely with DRs like every other MMO. Tho again i have no idea how feasible this would be from a coding standpoint(i assume completely replacing the system would take too much work if it's even possible) or what else it might break in the long run.

jokerspsycho
Posts: 244

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#127 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:53 pm

Kinja wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:01 pm
jokerspsycho wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:08 am
U just want to blow up healers in the opener in large scale n run away dont u?

More on topic, this is the first game I've played where stealth is more gimmicky than a class staple along with the stealthed openers being rather weak maybe so you dont feel bad if you dont get a stealth opener?
But that's the thing, that's what WHs/WEs were designed for back in the day. I played live from 2008(started in the beta) to mid 2010(i basically stopped around the time it turned into musical chairs with BOs and bomb squad central) and they would explode any healer or rpds they opened up on. That was their job, they would go around the fight and hit the enemy back lines taking out some of the healers and rpds and then either dying or managing to flee. Hell, WEs even exploded some of the tanks early on until they nerfed them. I wish people would go look up some of the old PvP videos and see how fun they were back then. The class feels nowhere near as fun or useful anymore, you get outdps'd by the other 2 melee classes even tho they also have better survivability than you and even tho you still have your awesome toolset of CCs it's pretty much negated by the fact that the game uses 30s resists to all CC instead of DRs like other games. I haven't played on RoR nearly enough to claim any sort of expertise and i won't presume to tell the devs how to do their job but imho Unstoppable is one of the major issues i see with the WH/WE playstyle, i think the game might be better if it was either replaced with different buffs for each CC or replaced completely with DRs like every other MMO. Tho again i have no idea how feasible this would be from a coding standpoint(i assume completely replacing the system would take too much work if it's even possible) or what else it might break in the long run.
It's one thing to want a change. What the guy I replied to was proposing was just stupidly overpowered. I do think the 30s resist is a bit much and that something like 10s would be ok as well, but im coming from wow and havnt played ranked at all so my opinion on that is kinda null and void lol

Starx
Posts: 228

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#128 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:32 pm

Players were also much worse on live, and way more unorganized... you could get away with a lot more. The CC nerf hit magus/engineer the hardest, then I would agree that WH/WE would be second in line. It blows my mind how long it took mythic/EA to buff engineer/magus and it was a pitiful band-aid HERES 20% MORE DMG HAHA only years after the nerf to CC... really puts into perspective how terrible their balance team was. WH/WE wouldn't see that treatment, only WE getting ranged finishers (another totally lazy unispired design choice towards homogenization).

And speaking of homogenization im almost afraid to say we are seeing that here with giving pounce out to 2 other classes. I know it's an extremely tall order to creat new and useful mechanics/abilities that aren't OP but we all watched what homogenization of classes did to WoW in the wotlk+ years in terms of class identity and variety. You will still see many new players here in WAR totally estatic about how cool all the classes seem and them running into a alt addiction.

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jokerspsycho
Posts: 244

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#129 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:42 pm

Starx wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:32 pm
WH/WE wouldn't see that treatment, only WE getting ranged finishers (another totally lazy unispired design choice towards homogenization).
What I find hilarious about this is that BaL, a finisher that "FIRES a bullet filled with fire oil" is 5ft range (unless tooltip is wrong in game and on builder), but my WEs stabs, with knives, are 30ft. What is this logic lol

Rekkerr
Posts: 13

Re: Worst class.... WH

Post#130 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:08 pm

Nadril21 wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:56 pm
WH/WE in a nutshell - the more people involved in a fight, the less useful you become.

IMO the current damage WH/WE does is acceptable, no more and no less. Its good damage and you can burst down alot of classes, but outside of 1v1 and small skirmishes your uses are so limited its not worth it to most players. Like prior posters have pointed out, your not a priority heal and its very unlikely you will get a guard. You have the armor of a BW/Sorc but somehow are suppose to melee. This would be a warranted trade off if you could actually just explode anyone you wanted too, but you cant.

Forts and eventually Cities, you are by far the most useless class on the field. I think thats where alot of people get discouraged from the class, because you dont fill any distinct purpose that another class cannot do better.

TLDR: WH/WE either needs a slight damage boost (Crit tactic or Inc heal debuff core ability?) or RVR utility (Bring back AOE TB/RA?) or increased survivability.
WH is dead to me, at least the WE can go full tanktard and still do dmg and get kills.

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