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[WP] Healing Improvement

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Aldmhac
Posts: 11

[WP] Healing Improvement

Post#1 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:52 am

Hey guys,

I'm about a month in returning to RoR after about a year break and have a RR69 WP. Currently I am geared in half Conqueror, half Vanquisher all with either +150/164 armour talismans. as well as the Conqeror SC weapons, and full genesis.

To be completely honest, I'm feeling a bit discouraged. I was in city defense warband a few days ago where I kept getting targeted, dying almost instantly despite detaunting and reading the game to move around, and the warband leader pretty much said I was not good enough which is not the best feeling in the world. I know i'm not the best however, I have am a decent player and have always only played healers in WAR, and RoR.

Tonight we defended Altdorf and I ended up with about 1million healing, with only two other WP's ahead of me - one had 1.2million, the other had something like 2.5million. I thought I played really well - healed my ass off. My group only died when the entire warband was getting wiped, and I was doing a decent job supporting other groups when I could take a eye off of my own.

Anyways - i'm writing here to see if anyone has any suggestions on how to up my game. Whether I need to sit tight and wait til I get to Vanq/ Invader to really see the results, or maybe even mechanical advice on how to improve, or using additional addons to support my gameplay.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I really enjoy this game and want to help out my fellow comrades as best as possible.

-Andrew
-Andrew

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Ototo
Posts: 1015

Re: [WP] Healing Improvement

Post#2 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:25 am

Try this combo if you haven't yet:
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;0;0;4;0;0
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,4177,4173

As of current meta, morale damage is king, queen, princess, and all the royal family. The only reliable way to soak such damage is wounds, that's why it's my secondary defensive stat selection.

You may move some tactic to disrupt one for even more Exalted Defenses procs, up to you. Currently destro has Magi, Sorcs, Zeals, Shams, and Maras dealing effects that you can disrupt.

As for play style, you seem fine. WP is about mobility and armor, and you seem to be doing it fine. Your 1st warband leader was either an idiot, a bigot, got you as scapegoat of the defeat, or simply had no ideas left. 1 million is a very decent figure in a defeat, going way too much up that means normally that your team was getting inappropriate focus for some reason, or that you reacted slowly. Like most politicians, a healer does a great job when her/his duty is invisible to everyone. If you do it fine, nobody will remember you until the end of the fight, and you will be healing less cause a slight part of your healing will be going to overheal.
Spoiler:

Zxul
Posts: 654

Re: [WP] Healing Improvement

Post#3 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:38 am

My two cents from healing wbs on dok, and from making specs.

1. In a heavy fighting situation, for how long you can spam aoe heal means more for wb survival than most other things. For city, get that Fueled Fury in. Also, spam Smite on cd.
2. Dok and wp don't actually have anything going off heal crit except self absorb, unlike say zealot's +20% healing tactic, so it matters lot less (10% extra heal crit which will cost alot is just 5% more healing for your party, on average).
3. Exalted Defenses looking at description requires defending vs attack. Which ain't happening with 0 renown in dodge/disr/parry. If you want it to be useful, be prepared for additional cost.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

User avatar
Ototo
Posts: 1015

Re: [WP] Healing Improvement

Post#4 » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:27 am

Zxul wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:38 am
My two cents from healing wbs on dok, and from making specs.

1. In a heavy fighting situation, for how long you can spam aoe heal means more for wb survival than most other things. For city, get that Fueled Fury in. Also, spam Smite on cd.
2. Dok and wp don't actually have anything going off heal crit except self absorb, unlike say zealot's +20% healing tactic, so it matters lot less (10% extra heal crit which will cost alot is just 5% more healing for your party, on average).
3. Exalted Defenses looking at description requires defending vs attack. Which ain't happening with 0 renown in dodge/disr/parry. If you want it to be useful, be prepared for additional cost.
It seems that you have way too much exp in DoK, and way too few in WP. Your comment pretty much highlights the differences between mirrors.

1. Not really required cause you have Exalted Defenses running behind that is a tard more useful tactic. Combine with Intimidating Repent and Cleaning Power and you have one tactic slot free. In 9/10 situations you prefer to have here Divine Warding, which depends in critical heals, or Shield of Faith, that synergy to proc Exalted Defenses more often under caster-heavy fire. 35 RF is just half of a heal skill, and each 3 seconds max. In the unlikely situation that it procs more than once, you will be dead by the time the third proc comes, or you won't need it anymore cause the fight is over. Fueled by Fury is a mele tactic for Grace, not for book-healing WPs/DoKs. If you can pile up the block from your shield and the fact that lifetaps are unaffected by healing increasing tactics, then it becomes a decent tactic. And in the name of God: Don't spam Smite, instead spam Repent. Can't do both.

2. Actually it's the opposite. Due to most heals been HoTs, you can get a lot of crits due to the amount of healing ticks. This is diff from AM where a single cast take 1-2 seconds and means that 1% heal crit translates to 1 crit every min and a half or 3 mins (100 seconds or 200 seconds) if you are pumping morale, whike in WP/DoK you have several healing ticks running, up to 4 each second easily, so a crit will happen every 25 seconds with just 1% heal crit. This piles up very fast for how ticks work.

3. Really showing lack of WP experience here. With just base disrupt the tactic is up a lot of the time, but let's not forget also that the class is a mele, meaning that has innate WS built-in for a parry that other healing classes don't have, while retaining most of the shared archetype Willp. I would say that, with zero investment in extra defenses, we are speaking of a 1/5 of the time up and only cause destro is mele heavy. You only need to parry a hit each 50 seconds to achieve this, which is pretty normal. If the fight includes a lot of destro casters, raise that to 1/3 of the time. You are so used that you don't notice, but healer classes disrupt A LOT. You will only start to notice it if you play a BW/Sorc/Magus and don't dump everything in Intel. Even with capped Intel you will be disrupted 1-2 cast each 30 seconds from healers even if you don't target them due to AoE effects, and that is enough to keep the tactic up and running enough time to account for 1/3 of the time. So worst case scenario, 1/5 of the time from parrying; next worst case scenario, 1/3 of the time from disrupt.
Spoiler:

Zxul
Posts: 654

Re: [WP] Healing Improvement

Post#5 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:33 am

Ototo wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:27 am
Spoiler:
Zxul wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:38 am
My two cents from healing wbs on dok, and from making specs.

1. In a heavy fighting situation, for how long you can spam aoe heal means more for wb survival than most other things. For city, get that Fueled Fury in. Also, spam Smite on cd.
2. Dok and wp don't actually have anything going off heal crit except self absorb, unlike say zealot's +20% healing tactic, so it matters lot less (10% extra heal crit which will cost alot is just 5% more healing for your party, on average).
3. Exalted Defenses looking at description requires defending vs attack. Which ain't happening with 0 renown in dodge/disr/parry. If you want it to be useful, be prepared for additional cost.
It seems that you have way too much exp in DoK, and way too few in WP. Your comment pretty much highlights the differences between mirrors.

1. Not really required cause you have Exalted Defenses running behind that is a tard more useful tactic. Combine with Intimidating Repent and Cleaning Power and you have one tactic slot free. In 9/10 situations you prefer to have here Divine Warding, which depends in critical heals, or Shield of Faith, that synergy to proc Exalted Defenses more often under caster-heavy fire. 35 RF is just half of a heal skill, and each 3 seconds max. In the unlikely situation that it procs more than once, you will be dead by the time the third proc comes, or you won't need it anymore cause the fight is over. Fueled by Fury is a mele tactic for Grace, not for book-healing WPs/DoKs. If you can pile up the block from your shield and the fact that lifetaps are unaffected by healing increasing tactics, then it becomes a decent tactic. And in the name of God: Don't spam Smite, instead spam Repent. Can't do both.

2. Actually it's the opposite. Due to most heals been HoTs, you can get a lot of crits due to the amount of healing ticks. This is diff from AM where a single cast take 1-2 seconds and means that 1% heal crit translates to 1 crit every min and a half or 3 mins (100 seconds or 200 seconds) if you are pumping morale, whike in WP/DoK you have several healing ticks running, up to 4 each second easily, so a crit will happen every 25 seconds with just 1% heal crit. This piles up very fast for how ticks work.

3. Really showing lack of WP experience here. With just base disrupt the tactic is up a lot of the time, but let's not forget also that the class is a mele, meaning that has innate WS built-in for a parry that other healing classes don't have, while retaining most of the shared archetype Willp. I would say that, with zero investment in extra defenses, we are speaking of a 1/5 of the time up and only cause destro is mele heavy. You only need to parry a hit each 50 seconds to achieve this, which is pretty normal. If the fight includes a lot of destro casters, raise that to 1/3 of the time. You are so used that you don't notice, but healer classes disrupt A LOT. You will only start to notice it if you play a BW/Sorc/Magus and don't dump everything in Intel. Even with capped Intel you will be disrupted 1-2 cast each 30 seconds from healers even if you don't target them due to AoE effects, and that is enough to keep the tactic up and running enough time to account for 1/3 of the time. So worst case scenario, 1/5 of the time from parrying; next worst case scenario, 1/3 of the time from disrupt.
1. From healing, specially in s3 heavy fights in city, lol at "In the unlikely situation that it procs more than once, you will be dead by the time the third proc comes, or you won't need it anymore cause the fight is over".

2. Lets get over base school math. Crit is 50% more healing value on that heal, no matter direct or hot. Your basic healing output is specific number, no matters if it comes in a single heal or if in lot of small ones. 50% * (your heal output) * 10% crit= same total number by which 10% more crit increases your healing, no matter how often did you crit.

3. Are you aware that even for a ws heavy melee class, when speaking parrying vs str capped mdps, ws adds 5% or so parry? Same for will vs intel.
From actual testing of setup with lots of crit immunity/toughness and no disrupt (works), haha at disrupting a lot from just basic will.
Now base school math again, 20% * 33% of the time = 6.5% or so extra healing, worth tactic slot?

To OP- do yourself a favor, if slotting Exalted Defenses make sure to do renown investment to make the tactic actually work.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

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Twyxx
Posts: 799

Re: [WP] Healing Improvement

Post#6 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:08 am

Why are you mixing conq/vanq in that way?
antivenomImagelords of the locker room

User avatar
Ototo
Posts: 1015

Re: [WP] Healing Improvement

Post#7 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:56 am

Zxul wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:33 am
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:27 am
Zxul wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:38 am
My two cents from healing wbs on dok, and from making specs.

1. In a heavy fighting situation, for how long you can spam aoe heal means more for wb survival than most other things. For city, get that Fueled Fury in. Also, spam Smite on cd.
2. Dok and wp don't actually have anything going off heal crit except self absorb, unlike say zealot's +20% healing tactic, so it matters lot less (10% extra heal crit which will cost alot is just 5% more healing for your party, on average).
3. Exalted Defenses looking at description requires defending vs attack. Which ain't happening with 0 renown in dodge/disr/parry. If you want it to be useful, be prepared for additional cost.
It seems that you have way too much exp in DoK, and way too few in WP. Your comment pretty much highlights the differences between mirrors.

1. Not really required cause you have Exalted Defenses running behind that is a tard more useful tactic. Combine with Intimidating Repent and Cleaning Power and you have one tactic slot free. In 9/10 situations you prefer to have here Divine Warding, which depends in critical heals, or Shield of Faith, that synergy to proc Exalted Defenses more often under caster-heavy fire. 35 RF is just half of a heal skill, and each 3 seconds max. In the unlikely situation that it procs more than once, you will be dead by the time the third proc comes, or you won't need it anymore cause the fight is over. Fueled by Fury is a mele tactic for Grace, not for book-healing WPs/DoKs. If you can pile up the block from your shield and the fact that lifetaps are unaffected by healing increasing tactics, then it becomes a decent tactic. And in the name of God: Don't spam Smite, instead spam Repent. Can't do both.

2. Actually it's the opposite. Due to most heals been HoTs, you can get a lot of crits due to the amount of healing ticks. This is diff from AM where a single cast take 1-2 seconds and means that 1% heal crit translates to 1 crit every min and a half or 3 mins (100 seconds or 200 seconds) if you are pumping morale, whike in WP/DoK you have several healing ticks running, up to 4 each second easily, so a crit will happen every 25 seconds with just 1% heal crit. This piles up very fast for how ticks work.

3. Really showing lack of WP experience here. With just base disrupt the tactic is up a lot of the time, but let's not forget also that the class is a mele, meaning that has innate WS built-in for a parry that other healing classes don't have, while retaining most of the shared archetype Willp. I would say that, with zero investment in extra defenses, we are speaking of a 1/5 of the time up and only cause destro is mele heavy. You only need to parry a hit each 50 seconds to achieve this, which is pretty normal. If the fight includes a lot of destro casters, raise that to 1/3 of the time. You are so used that you don't notice, but healer classes disrupt A LOT. You will only start to notice it if you play a BW/Sorc/Magus and don't dump everything in Intel. Even with capped Intel you will be disrupted 1-2 cast each 30 seconds from healers even if you don't target them due to AoE effects, and that is enough to keep the tactic up and running enough time to account for 1/3 of the time. So worst case scenario, 1/5 of the time from parrying; next worst case scenario, 1/3 of the time from disrupt.
1. From healing, specially in s3 heavy fights in city, lol at "In the unlikely situation that it procs more than once, you will be dead by the time the third proc comes, or you won't need it anymore cause the fight is over".

2. Lets get over base school math. Crit is 50% more healing value on that heal, no matter direct or hot. Your basic healing output is specific number, no matters if it comes in a single heal or if in lot of small ones. 50% * (your heal output) * 10% crit= same total number by which 10% more crit increases your healing, no matter how often did you crit.

3. Are you aware that even for a ws heavy melee class, when speaking parrying vs str capped mdps, ws adds 5% or so parry? Same for will vs intel.
From actual testing of setup with lots of crit immunity/toughness and no disrupt (works), haha at disrupting a lot from just basic will.
Now base school math again, 20% * 33% of the time = 6.5% or so extra healing, worth tactic slot?

To OP- do yourself a favor, if slotting Exalted Defenses make sure to do renown investment to make the tactic actually work.
1. You are implying that a single group heal each 6 seconds worth to break the detaunt, that is the skill that you will be spamming. I tell you again that only in the unlikely situation that you are under no attack at all, so in PvE or while your realm is zergling.

2. Frequency of crits matters A LOT when you are trying to save a player under 25% health, which is what order as the underdog has to do each day. You really want the crits to happen as often and as soon as possible, cause your window of opportunity tends to be very tiny. Maybe I expressed myself incredibly poorly here, and if so I'm sorry.

3. Ofc it's worth a tactic slot!! I suggest that you try this with actual field experience before speaking. Exalted Defenses is even a defensive tactic by itself most of the times.
Spoiler:

Zxul
Posts: 654

Re: [WP] Healing Improvement

Post#8 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:23 am

Ototo wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:56 am
Spoiler:
Zxul wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:33 am
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:27 am


It seems that you have way too much exp in DoK, and way too few in WP. Your comment pretty much highlights the differences between mirrors.

1. Not really required cause you have Exalted Defenses running behind that is a tard more useful tactic. Combine with Intimidating Repent and Cleaning Power and you have one tactic slot free. In 9/10 situations you prefer to have here Divine Warding, which depends in critical heals, or Shield of Faith, that synergy to proc Exalted Defenses more often under caster-heavy fire. 35 RF is just half of a heal skill, and each 3 seconds max. In the unlikely situation that it procs more than once, you will be dead by the time the third proc comes, or you won't need it anymore cause the fight is over. Fueled by Fury is a mele tactic for Grace, not for book-healing WPs/DoKs. If you can pile up the block from your shield and the fact that lifetaps are unaffected by healing increasing tactics, then it becomes a decent tactic. And in the name of God: Don't spam Smite, instead spam Repent. Can't do both.

2. Actually it's the opposite. Due to most heals been HoTs, you can get a lot of crits due to the amount of healing ticks. This is diff from AM where a single cast take 1-2 seconds and means that 1% heal crit translates to 1 crit every min and a half or 3 mins (100 seconds or 200 seconds) if you are pumping morale, whike in WP/DoK you have several healing ticks running, up to 4 each second easily, so a crit will happen every 25 seconds with just 1% heal crit. This piles up very fast for how ticks work.

3. Really showing lack of WP experience here. With just base disrupt the tactic is up a lot of the time, but let's not forget also that the class is a mele, meaning that has innate WS built-in for a parry that other healing classes don't have, while retaining most of the shared archetype Willp. I would say that, with zero investment in extra defenses, we are speaking of a 1/5 of the time up and only cause destro is mele heavy. You only need to parry a hit each 50 seconds to achieve this, which is pretty normal. If the fight includes a lot of destro casters, raise that to 1/3 of the time. You are so used that you don't notice, but healer classes disrupt A LOT. You will only start to notice it if you play a BW/Sorc/Magus and don't dump everything in Intel. Even with capped Intel you will be disrupted 1-2 cast each 30 seconds from healers even if you don't target them due to AoE effects, and that is enough to keep the tactic up and running enough time to account for 1/3 of the time. So worst case scenario, 1/5 of the time from parrying; next worst case scenario, 1/3 of the time from disrupt.
1. From healing, specially in s3 heavy fights in city, lol at "In the unlikely situation that it procs more than once, you will be dead by the time the third proc comes, or you won't need it anymore cause the fight is over".

2. Lets get over base school math. Crit is 50% more healing value on that heal, no matter direct or hot. Your basic healing output is specific number, no matters if it comes in a single heal or if in lot of small ones. 50% * (your heal output) * 10% crit= same total number by which 10% more crit increases your healing, no matter how often did you crit.

3. Are you aware that even for a ws heavy melee class, when speaking parrying vs str capped mdps, ws adds 5% or so parry? Same for will vs intel.
From actual testing of setup with lots of crit immunity/toughness and no disrupt (works), haha at disrupting a lot from just basic will.
Now base school math again, 20% * 33% of the time = 6.5% or so extra healing, worth tactic slot?

To OP- do yourself a favor, if slotting Exalted Defenses make sure to do renown investment to make the tactic actually work.
1. You are implying that a single group heal each 6 seconds worth to break the detaunt, that is the skill that you will be spamming. I tell you again that only in the unlikely situation that you are under no attack at all, so in PvE or while your realm is zergling.

2. Frequency of crits matters A LOT when you are trying to save a player under 25% health, which is what order as the underdog has to do each day. You really want the crits to happen as often and as soon as possible, cause your window of opportunity tends to be very tiny. Maybe I expressed myself incredibly poorly here, and if so I'm sorry.

3. Ofc it's worth a tactic slot!! I suggest that you try this with actual field experience before speaking. Exalted Defenses is even a defensive tactic by itself most of the times.
1. Lets start from a fun fact- detaunt doesn't stacks with guard.

2. It doesn't matters if you crit 4 times on 300 per tick hot, or 1 time on 1200 single heal- the extra healing will be the same, 600 extra. 10% extra crit means on dok/wp that you will get lucky in 1 out of 10 times when someone is under 25%, nothing else, since besides self absorb dok/wp (unlike again say zealot) got nothing going off heal crit.

3. Not with a low chance to proc. As for defensive tactic, for self defense Emperor's Guard will do more, and unlike Exalted Defenses it isn't affected by heal debuffs.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

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Ototo
Posts: 1015

Re: [WP] Healing Improvement

Post#9 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:47 am

Zxul wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:23 am
Spoiler:
Ototo wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:56 am
Spoiler:
Zxul wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:33 am


1. From healing, specially in s3 heavy fights in city, lol at "In the unlikely situation that it procs more than once, you will be dead by the time the third proc comes, or you won't need it anymore cause the fight is over".

2. Lets get over base school math. Crit is 50% more healing value on that heal, no matter direct or hot. Your basic healing output is specific number, no matters if it comes in a single heal or if in lot of small ones. 50% * (your heal output) * 10% crit= same total number by which 10% more crit increases your healing, no matter how often did you crit.

3. Are you aware that even for a ws heavy melee class, when speaking parrying vs str capped mdps, ws adds 5% or so parry? Same for will vs intel.
From actual testing of setup with lots of crit immunity/toughness and no disrupt (works), haha at disrupting a lot from just basic will.
Now base school math again, 20% * 33% of the time = 6.5% or so extra healing, worth tactic slot?

To OP- do yourself a favor, if slotting Exalted Defenses make sure to do renown investment to make the tactic actually work.
1. You are implying that a single group heal each 6 seconds worth to break the detaunt, that is the skill that you will be spamming. I tell you again that only in the unlikely situation that you are under no attack at all, so in PvE or while your realm is zergling.

2. Frequency of crits matters A LOT when you are trying to save a player under 25% health, which is what order as the underdog has to do each day. You really want the crits to happen as often and as soon as possible, cause your window of opportunity tends to be very tiny. Maybe I expressed myself incredibly poorly here, and if so I'm sorry.

3. Ofc it's worth a tactic slot!! I suggest that you try this with actual field experience before speaking. Exalted Defenses is even a defensive tactic by itself most of the times.


1. Lets start from a fun fact- detaunt doesn't stacks with guard.

2. It doesn't matters if you crit 4 times on 300 per tick hot, or 1 time on 1200 single heal- the extra healing will be the same, 600 extra. 10% extra crit means on dok/wp that you will get lucky in 1 out of 10 times when someone is under 25%, nothing else, since besides self absorb dok/wp (unlike again say zealot) got nothing going off heal crit.

3. Not with a low chance to proc. As for defensive tactic, for self defense Emperor's Guard will do more, and unlike Exalted Defenses it isn't affected by heal debuffs.
It seems to me that you speak of the class without actual experience in it. I really doubt that you have passed more than a couple hours in it in tier 1 at most. Your comments are so off from any WP experience that I think that is better for me to leave this here, cause I don't think it makes sense to try to discuss this with you.
Spoiler:

User avatar
roadkillrobin
Posts: 2753

Re: [WP] Healing Improvement

Post#10 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:03 pm

The trick to healing with this class is about min maxing all your resources. CD's, RF, HP and distance is all expendeble resources that you need to use with this class. You should have your single target HoT's running on the dps and group HoT running in your group at all time, (but not recast on targets that's on low hp). Use the AP heal and group heal as means of counter burst dps. RF, HP and distance management work in tandem. You need to be in Smite range, without taking to much frontline damage to regen RF at a sufficiant rate when burst damage hit your group. Try to practicing playing with minimizing the use of Supplication as a means of RF regeneration. This skill is fine to use when burst damage is far and between. But in terms of AoE burst incidents you need to learn to play without it.
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