warrior priest dps, thoughts

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Villain1117
Posts: 7

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#31 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:51 pm

WP dont do enough damage so that the effect of their healing from melee abilities is worthless, they are too squishy. They get locked down too easy. They took away the ability to using grace tree abilities by giving them a shield, which BROKE them. The shield is a stupid mechanic. THe only 2 true dps to healing conversion abilities useful are not high enough healing conversion. 100 percent damage to healing conversion should be like 300 percent. Change the Wrath AOE DOT to also Heal group members for 100 percent of the damage done this way in a bigger group fight it will be very useful and still be useful in a small 6v6 enviornment. I can do great damage as a WP wrath tree as long as I can outlive being focussed, or I have a tank guarding me. Every SC i play im averaging like 80k damage and around 20-30k healing IF a choppa can average 140k Damage than a WP in wrath should be able to average 80to 90k damage and 40 to 50k healing if they are good its also a way higher skill cap. To have to constantly juggle healing targets and heal yourself as well as assist your MA. All you whiners that think WP is OP are cry babies. All DPS should be nerfed just to be on par with the rest of the classes in the game.

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BurnSetting
Posts: 11

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#32 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:33 pm

Villain1117 wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:51 pm
IF a choppa can average 140k Damage than a WP in wrath should be able to average 80to 90k damage and 40 to 50k healing if they are good its also a way higher skill cap. To have to constantly juggle healing targets and heal yourself as well as assist your MA. All you whiners that think WP is OP are cry babies. All DPS should be nerfed just to be on par with the rest of the classes in the game.
I can fairly say that this a true and good statement - the COMBINED contribution from Damage and Healing of a WP/DOK should just about equal a really good, comparably geared out DPS class. Unfortunately this is rarely the case and AOE spec Choppa/Slayer or even BW/Sorc/Magus can far out-damage most average DPS spec WP. Skill cap is HIGH for sure. This is not a spec choice for the weak. This is a spec for the best of us.

People who whine about any order class being OP have just ran into a player that was better than them because they've been forced to fight against nigh impossible odds for so long. One in ten being good or well geared out is an outlier though and shouldn't be used as a standard for any class...
Sekshual Healin - Warrior Priestess of Sigmar
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Grinding to be the best face smasher in the west!

blondgelockt
Posts: 20

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#33 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:20 am

Jabba wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:55 pm
Except it was? Live was horribly imbalanced
It was horrible then, it's horrible now. Scratch that, imho it's worse now than on live.

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Wdova
Posts: 525

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#34 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:16 am

That was why I rather play my old WH than my new wanna be DPS Warrior priest. The lack off CC and Gap closer is real issue if You dont have tank friend who can provide CC you lack and guard You.

Damage part seems okay ish even its lower than standard mDPS class which is OK. I dont think hybrid classes should be on same level as pure dps classes.

Villain1117
Posts: 7

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#35 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:15 pm

Wdova wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:16 am
That was why I rather play my old WH than my new wanna be DPS Warrior priest. The lack off CC and Gap closer is real issue if You dont have tank friend who can provide CC you lack and guard You.

Damage part seems okay ish even its lower than standard mDPS class which is OK. I dont think hybrid classes should be on same level as pure dps classes.
I agree but the DPS/Healing in combo should equal what a DPS class can put out

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Sciberr
Posts: 9
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Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#36 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:12 am

personally i don't see anything wrong/lacking with wrath spec wp... only thing is i don't like guilty soul and feel like its a pointless tactic

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Sinisterror
Posts: 101

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#37 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:59 pm

Sciberr wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:12 am
personally i don't see anything wrong/lacking with wrath spec wp... only thing is i don't like guilty soul and feel like its a pointless tactic
Its okay but i liked the way it was live because you could heal good with it, crit with smite in scenario's every 5 sec and your target so you would have like 2-4 guilty souls healing me or def target, sometimes much more. Gap closing was much easier live because of odjira/sandstorm speed incrase talismans. Odjira was like 70% speed buff which stacked with the renown ability speed buff and that stacked with shaman's run away : D I also had very old cloak on my shaman(and wp) you got from fort defense purple bag that has 700 armour buff on hit. New rewards came on forts and these EPIC cloaks and wpns were no longer avalaible, same thing happened to wpns etc in stage 2 and 3 after KILL THE KING PVE endgame was replaced/updated, and that 700 armour buff stacks with armour potion and those stacked with 800 armour buff on my lotd wpn with 15 % crit chance and 3200 absorb for 20 seconds talismans, so yeah there was alot of stupid stuff you could on live WAR : D loved that all xtra armour on heal wp and shaman though and shaman was so much fun because you could really kite a warband :D

Back to dps wp, imo give the guilty soul healing ability back with keeping the dmg buff on wrath AND autoattacks, give this tactic to doks as well, remove heal debuff from dok. Give both 10 sec heal debuff spirit dot that also does xtra damage everytime the target is healed and if cleansed it does aoe spirit dmg. The 1 sec gcd on prayer and covenants is stupid and take's dmg espesially on dok away too much, while taking away 0,5gcd on riposte+ slayer/choppa mechanic can increase dmg on riposte but nothing else can ? Not sure. On wrath prayer add something like 5% speed buff on you for 5 seconds, doesnt break if you do dmg and 5% speed debuff on target for 5 seconds.

Add a small speed buff on the immune to slows disarms etc skill on both dok and wp, 10% would be better than nothing, it has 60 sec cooldown so it would not be op. Both should get 65feet range snare debuff on disrupt&dodge and if you parry you can disarm with it as well. I also loved the possibiities when ror had different buffs on prayers/covenants and very big class changes and it is a shame they were all reverted:E Willpower turning to str with wrath/celerity was a great idea.
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BurnSetting
Posts: 11

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#38 » Thu May 14, 2020 2:51 pm

So I had written up a masterpiece of thought on this subject and then when I went to post it, it disappeared. So sad. :cry: I'll try to recreate it as best I can though!

The problem with the DPS WP is in consistency and role in PVP play. Currently, DPS WP are only viable for play in small scale engagements - 10 players per side or less. Beyond that number of people you get focused by 4-10+ DPS classes immediately following a knockdown and you die instantly. Perhaps the same can be said for Slayers and White Lions. I know I've seen it happen when I've been in Salvation Spec. So what's the real issue?

In 6v6 play the DPS WP can shine. I say "can" because it's not always a certainty. The skill cap for the class is extremely high and the Action Economy is TERRIBLE. When I go Wrath spec I have a rotation of 8-10 abilities that I use depending on the situation. It takes me around 10-14 seconds depending on if I channel Divine Assault (and I better be or I'm dead) to do anything significant in the fight usually. I'm pretty sure a Choppa has to press 1-3 buttons... There's just a lot to do even within the first 4 seconds of battle to ensure I'm effective (Smite as I run in, Sigmar's Vision, Sigmar's Fist, Absence of Faith, Bludgeon, Hammer of Sigmar would be a bare minimum if it's an ideal 1v1).

The real issue is that the DPS WP, in the hands of Highly geared out and skilled players is very nearly a 1v1 king/queen. Any major buff would ruin the balance, especially for 6v6 competitive play. How can we accomplish that? As much as I want the DPS WP to be an OP OP beast that destroys everything 1v20, I also know this isn't realistic. And as a Dungeon Master, the idea of balance is important to me.

Weaknesses
- Action Economy
---- Also applies to Tactic Economy. For DPS WP we have very specific must haves for tactics. As such, things like Endless Guilt NEVER get used.
- Mirror Imbalance: DoK Utility
---- DoK has the tactic to apply Anti-heal on Crit (Curse of Khaine) vs. having to use an ability. This helps their action economy, but it also means they can apply anti-heal to 10+ people via High crit chance and Essence Lash! With both abilities having the same cooldown, you could potentially keep an enemy team permanently anti-healed with ONE ability usage. OP OP OP
---- DoK's Covenant of Celerity not only applies damage, but applies a Cripple effect to assist their other abilities AND a 20% slow. Anyone in their party can now slow enemies with any attack. WHUT?!
---- DoK's Covenant of Vitality applies damage as a Lifetap proc for your party? This means two DoK's in the same party can increase the party damage by 250 (base) PLUS give the party utility unseen elsewhere.
---- DoK's Morale 2, Khaine's Withdrawal, is an awesome ability unseen by any other class. But isn't a DoK about APPLYING curses/cripples? Why are they the Super-Cleanser???
- DPS WP is a very MAD Class (Multiple Attribute Dependent)
---- NEED 800+ STR, 400+ WS, ~800 WND, ~250 INIT, Crit Hit Chance, PLUS Armor (Tali management is eww... RR Management focuses on Crit/Anti-Crit)
---- Creates a spec that is only "viable" at RR70+ and in Bloodlord or better
------ Spec is fun in T1/T2, just not in T3/4 until that late late point
- Survivability
---- Our self heal is unreliable as it gets parried/blocked/dodged so much and the damage that does get through is mitigated enough that we often still die. A 2H Chosen can kill a DPS WP no problem if in Invader/Oppressor gear!
- No initiation to the fight (unless you use FLEE and then an AP Potion)
- Easily held in place or neutralized via abundant enemy CC
---- I can't count the amount of times I've been rooted/slowed, then staggered, then knocked down, then silenced, then punted, and finally died in mid-air... But I suppose that's everyone?
- Tactics choices
---- Wrath WP is stuck choosing 4 tactics to make them viable and one of those tactics is only a minor help (Hastened Divinity). Tactics like Endless Guilt just don't get used.
(pretty sure I had others on my original write-up, but this is good for now)

Strengths
- Fun if you don't die immediately
- Human so you look cool and not like a goofy Elf
- You get to wield a big hammer which looks cool
- You can hit like a truck with said hammer provided you have very good gear and don't die immediately (Armor pen ability + Spirit damage)
- Lots of utility is brought to the fight by DPS WP that is hard to find other places on Order (Slow, Silence, Anti-heal, Purge, Heals, and Buffs in one package)
(this is the same as my other write-up. A lot easier to remember a small list ;) )

So what to do about this spec?

I know the DoK and WP are supposed to be NEAR mirrors of each other, but what's the focus of each? Is it supposed to be in line with the Lore? More Curse/damage vs. more Healing/cleansing?
Question: Is the extra utility that the DoK gets such as a tactic for built in anti-heal on crit or Slows and life-tap procs on prayers better than the additional 25 damage or 75 healing? Answer: that was a rhetorical question. Of course the utility is better!

If the intent is to make the class a DPS MONSTER, then let's do that! If I'm going to run into battle and die in 4 seconds, at least let me get off 4k damage in that 4 seconds. One way to do this is to increase the damage specific to the Wrath tree. Make a few more of the Wrath skills require 2H-Hammers and then increase ability scaling AND base damage on those skills. This helps avoid any possible Grace abuse and helps the DPS of a true Wrath WP. Something in line with the Marauder buff would be fine as a start I'm sure.

If the intent was to make the class a frontline Holy Crusader who brings the Word of Sigmar to their allies and Fury of Sigmar to their enemies, then let's add some flavor there. There are opportunities to provide things similar, but opposite, to what the DoK has in terms of team utility without making the solo Wrath WP an invincible juggernaut. Things that will assist the Action Economy of the class as well.
- Prayer of Righteousness change: "Any time one of your groupmates within 100ft hits an enemy, there is a 20% chance that they will deal an additional 125 Spirit damage (base) and remove one Curse or Hex from themselves."
---- This fits the idea that their faith in Sigmar is their holy shield and their Righteousness is not only fueling their fury but protecting them from evil as well! **This is possibly my favorite Idea so far**
- Maybe make Prayer of Devotion grant the cleanse instead? After all, healing and purifying go hand in hand. Then make Prayer of Righteousness restore 10AP to allies on hits. AP is a big problem for Wrath Spec, so this would benefit them greatly. Almost no one uses Relentless Assault M2 anyway, so this would be helpful to the whole of Order and moderately counter all the AP drain that Destro has. By the way, DoK has a tactic that makes their Consume Strength drain 50 AP from a target in addition to the 50 STR drain (base) …
---- This cleansing ability may make the Tactic "Cleansing Power" obsolete. Perhaps it would be better to give Prayer of Righteousness a 20% speed boost to all party members within 100ft? Or a speed boost on Hit? This would balance the slow the DoK has.
------ Everyone has already talked about Unstoppable Wrath getting a speed buff already. This would solve that problem near-perfectly.
- Could get rid of Hastened Divinity and give Prayer of Righteousness the speed buff proc instead. Would help with some tactic options.

A Guilty Soul Change like everyone has been talking about could be beneficial to assisting in survivability of the WP, even when Knocked down for 12 million seconds or rapid fire punted/pulled as seems to be the norm. You ever been punted, then immediately punted again by a Squig Herder, then Pulled by a Choppa pull? I feel like a damned pinball bouncing around everywhere... Adding healing to Guilty Soul is more in line with what the THEME of the class "seems" to be (more healing than DoK vs More Damage). But I worry that it could overshadow Prayer of Devotion or become too powerful when combined with it. What to do?!
- Guilty Soul change: "Any time you critically hit with a direct damage ability in the Path of Wrath, you will regain 150 health (base) over 9 seconds and gain a blessing which increases your Path of Wrath abilities by 5%. The blessing and healing effects stack up to 4 times and refresh duration after each critical hit."
---- If the healing maxed at 300 then that would be 1200 over 9 seconds. That doesn't sound like a lot of healing but it is when combined with everything else. It can be debuffed by anti-heal, so it wouldn't be unstoppable.
---- Overall damage will go down, but survivability would (should) go up. This would make many people happy. I have mixed feelings about such a change... the current guilty soul is a lot of damage to give up.

I'm not even going to talk about Morale 4's because no one even uses them. They take too long to get to and have so little actual impact it's silly. Divine Amazement Seems like the only one that MIGHT be good. Go Grace Spec!! WOOOO!!!
---- P.S. - I just saw the shield changes yesterday and I really like the new looks. Thanks! Too bad I have not once used them. :?

If the intent is to not change anything and leave it how it is, leaving one-third of a class option fairly unused and underpowered, then can we at least make the mirror version the same and nerf one-third of their class also? I'd much rather just even the score than nerf. Nobody likes nerfs except your enemies. But balanced buffs are exciting!
Sekshual Healin - Warrior Priestess of Sigmar
RR77

Grinding to be the best face smasher in the west!

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yoluigi
Posts: 35

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#39 » Fri May 29, 2020 4:17 pm

That would be a great change to some abilities! The Dev should see the ideas you got and maybe do something about it. They need to change guilty souls that is for sure.

penagos22
Posts: 4

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#40 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:10 pm

"- DPS WP is a very MAD Class (Multiple Attribute Dependent)
---- NEED 800+ STR, 400+ WS, ~800 WND, ~250 INIT, Crit Hit Chance, PLUS Armor (Tali management is eww... RR Management focuses on Crit/Anti-Crit)"

this is the principal problem, i spend all my gold trying to balance this, is imposible because you need, yea you guess right ----> futile strikes, so there is the point where the wp dps die, you can get the necesary stats to do damage but you will die in a blink but if you stack futile strikes you wont die but you damage is trash.

"In 6v6 play the DPS WP can shine. I say "can" because it's not always a certainty. The skill cap for the class is extremely high and the Action Economy is TERRIBLE. When I go Wrath spec I have a rotation of 8-10 abilities that I use depending on the situation. It takes me around 10-14 seconds depending on if I channel Divine Assault (and I better be or I'm dead) to do anything significant in the fight usually. I'm pretty sure a Choppa has to press 1-3 buttons... There's just a lot to do even within the first 4 seconds of battle to ensure I'm effective (Smite as I run in, Sigmar's Vision, Sigmar's Fist, Absence of Faith, Bludgeon, Hammer of Sigmar would be a bare minimum if it's an ideal 1v1)."

yea, if you arent a pianist you cant play wp dps. its fair the wp dps reward? i mean if we die in 1 sec when we can press all the botons we need?

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