warrior priest dps, thoughts

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niikuu
Posts: 10

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#41 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:22 am

Considering how lacking Order is in terms of melee DPS population, people should stop bitching about DPS WPs giving them a little bit of room to play their fancy casters.

Among other things, refusing to help heal them at the front line, refusing to guard them, abusing them in chat, and the general attitude of "this is lost" make up for the self-fulfilling prophecy of "I'm always losing Scenarios on Order".

That being said, class hatred is always based on facts.

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yoluigi
Posts: 47

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#42 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:35 pm

They just need to give some curse to Bludgeon and give us some tapheal like sigmar radiance but for 2h

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BurnSetting
Posts: 13

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#43 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:39 pm

So, I'm 82 now and I'm wearing 5pc Warlord/3pc off-Sov. I have all the best 2h hammers (Fortress Greathammer, Bloodlord, Truth, and Titan's Sledge of Reverence). Here's some of the things I've learned since my last post:

- New players are still hating on DPS WP because they want you to heal THEM. They don't understand that the spec is viable and will readily tell you this and that you're **** because you don't heal them. They miss the fact that this is literally a spec that is available, and thus in the game to be played. Solution: Don't rez them. They suck. Rez everyone else instead and point out that you're the only MDPS class on Order that can rez without a banner. #bestheal #doitlikejesus

- People who play with you often will find that they LOVE your ability to act as the Main Assist and ensure the party/WB absolutely DELETE enemies. Stacking even the 50% anti-heal on your opponents on top of the 2-5k damage you can do with BiS gear loadouts in under 4 seconds is very, very nice. Solution: Play with cool people, be positive, and have fun!

- Squishiness. It exists. When in a warband for oRVR or even 12+ person SC, if you get focused then you're dead. BUT!! This statement is true for ALL non-tank characters. Sooo... Welcome to Return of Reckoning! :D Solution: Watch your positioning, get a guard, and pre-hot yourself (every little bit helps). Use every trick in the book to make yourself more survivable including armor/toughness pots, rotation of lifetaps, and more. Either that or get used to dying and be suicidal like me. ;)

- Time-to-kill: I've tested the different weapons I mentioned using a statistical analysis approach (multiple data points) to ensure that the time-to-kill was consistent and adjusting for my own human errors + RNG of the game (crit, damage rolls, etc). I did this on the test dummies in Altdorf with the weapons and found that I can kill test dummies in the following time-frames:
- Bloodlord Sledge: 120-121 seconds
- Titan's Sledge of Reverence: 121-122 seconds
- Fortress GreatHammer: 125 seconds
- Truth: 126 seconds
This leads me to figure that Bloodlord sledge is perhaps NOT the BiS weapon. The loss of survivability is a huge blow for 1-5 seconds of time to kill on a target with 10's of thousands of HP. For Truth, the proc can give you and your team a big damage spike, but could be considered unreliable. If you're looking for "Ol' reliable" then stick with the Titan's sledge (oppressor weapon) or Fortress Greathammer. The extra crit chance they provide makes up for the loss you'd have going from BL sledge to Truth, the damage ratings and extra stats allow for survivability, and the anti-heal proc from the Fortress GH allows you to stack on 75% anti-heal on an opponent at times.
Personal preferences will apply here and you'll have to do your own testing, on the dummies and live enemies, to see which you think is best for you. Please, PLEASE someone else do testing on the dummies and provide a reply with your data. Personal stat builds will also vary this info and your 'mileage'.

- City time! Yes, DPS WP is viable in cities. Have you ever seen a DPS WP as a CHAMP?! Cuz I've been one and so have a couple other of the big bad DPS WP on the server. It's awesome for sure! I've out-damaged a LOT of main MDPS classes in cities. The reasons vary from gear, to guard vs no-guard, to positioning, to target priority. And yes, a well played and well geared WL or Slayer are going to out damage me. But damn do I keep up! Plus I provide silence and anti-heal to the fight which I've seen literally turn the tide of the champ fights.

- Weaknesses of the class still exist. A DPS DoK is still much better and more viable. Talk to Fixerr about it. He will tell you exactly how fast he dies to DPS DoK that are geared/good. And again, the same problems I outlined in my previously looong post still exist - Namely action economy, being locked down by far too much CC too easily, and the ease to which destro can shutdown our survivability skills. Every been Choppa pulled 3 times in a row and then sliced apart in the air? I have! How about Mara pull to knock down to silence and eventual death as you smash your keyboard for 5-10 seconds hoping to Sigmar that SOME ABILITY will fire off? Meanwhile destro are laughing at you.

- Strengths still exist and have been outlined here a bit already. We do decent to good damage against a wide variety of targets. We can rez. We can heal a bit. We have silence and anti-heal. We are a UTILITY MDPS spec. Not a PURE DAMAGE SPEC. And that's OK!!

- Some things I'd like to see are potentially easy changes that also don't break the game.
- One of the main problems being action economy and the "Ramp-up time" for DPS WP to get to their maximum potential... Relying on RNGeezus to crit and proc Guilty Soul 4 times isn't ideal. It's only quick if you're fighting in oRVR against a horde of enemies and you just smite 30 enemies. Watching those guilty soul damage numbers is fun, but the joy of that is usually greatly diminished by the RESPAWN prompt in the middle of your screen.
- Is there a way to change this to make it easier for us to get the damage bonus OR making Guilty Soul give all your WRATH abilities (and WRATH abilities ONLY) a flat damage bonus in addition to the DOT? Because I gotta tell you, running Guilty Soul as a Grace Spec was hella fun for a few days with that extra 20% damage, plus DOTs, plus AOE divine strike for 800-1500 lifetaps.
- Speaking of Action Economy, can we get something to help with that? Combine some things like the DoK? Make me not have to be a Pianist, like another person stated. If not that then...
- More survivability or Strikethrough. I don't want to kill everything and everyone willy nilly. A juggernaut of the battlefield is not what I wish to be. Given that though, how is a 2H Chosen doing 400 more damage than me PLUS still taking 4+ people 30 seconds+ to kill? How is a Sword Master doing 4500 damage to me in 5 seconds with Ether Dance (yes I duel occasionally). Why are TANKS the ultimate DPS?! I'm down for tanks having a DPS Spec. I'm a "healer" and I have one, so why not! But as a class who's Lore is that I'm a FRONTLINE BATTLE HEALER why am I getting laughed at by any tank who's in similar gear and specced for DPS? I'm curious as to how the hierarchy of DPS is envisioned by the team.
- Survivability could come from better Lifetaps. Hard to balance, I know. Maybe a 10% tap from Guilty Soul only to us and not our team? Would allow people to not have to guard us as much and make us less of a liability to a warband.
- Strikethrough could be just a slight increase to the 2h strikethrough across the board. I understand from other conversations that the dual-wield bonus more than mitigates the strikethrough. (Please someone comment on this with data/facts to back up or refute this statement!!!) 2h Chosen and other classes don't have to worry about this because they often have undefendable attacks or attacks that auto-bypass armor/defense stats. Our 25% armor pen every 60sec helps, but doesn't quite make up for this issue in full. (Thoughts?!)

Lastly, to Ototo who talked about WRATH spec having AOE Detaunt still... If you run AOE Detaunt in this spec then it's no wonder people think you suck as DPS WP. Because you do. It takes a tactic slot to do that and it's a worthless tactic as DPS since you will be doing AOE damage nearly non-stop if you're smart. Stop trying to be a healer as a DPS. You're making the rest of our lives harder. Be smart, be better. Run Guilty Soul, Fanaticism, Hastened Divinity, and Divine Fury.

Cheers!
Sekshual Healin - Warrior Priestess of Sigmar
RR82

Grinding to be the best face smasher in the west!

Check me out on Twitch!
www.twitch.tv/burnsetting

djkovale
Posts: 4

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#44 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:21 am

Well said Sekshual!

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Gurf
Posts: 130

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#45 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:03 pm

So how come DPS DOK is better than DPS WP, more procs from having daggers?

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phononHYPE
Posts: 296

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#46 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:28 pm

Gurf wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:03 pm
So how come DPS DOK is better than DPS WP, more procs from having daggers?
Rule-of-cool: DoK > WP
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Leecifer
Posts: 129

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#47 » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:26 pm

BurnSetting wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:39 pm
- Time-to-kill: I've tested the different weapons I mentioned using a statistical analysis approach (multiple data points) to ensure that the time-to-kill was consistent and adjusting for my own human errors + RNG of the game (crit, damage rolls, etc). I did this on the test dummies in Altdorf with the weapons and found that I can kill test dummies in the following time-frames:
- Bloodlord Sledge: 120-121 seconds
- Titan's Sledge of Reverence: 121-122 seconds
- Fortress GreatHammer: 125 seconds
- Truth: 126 seconds
This leads me to figure that Bloodlord sledge is perhaps NOT the BiS weapon. The loss of survivability is a huge blow for 1-5 seconds of time to kill on a target with 10's of thousands of HP. For Truth, the proc can give you and your team a big damage spike, but could be considered unreliable. If you're looking for "Ol' reliable" then stick with the Titan's sledge (oppressor weapon) or Fortress Greathammer. The extra crit chance they provide makes up for the loss you'd have going from BL sledge to Truth, the damage ratings and extra stats allow for survivability, and the anti-heal proc from the Fortress GH allows you to stack on 75% anti-heal on an opponent at times.
Personal preferences will apply here and you'll have to do your own testing, on the dummies and live enemies, to see which you think is best for you. Please, PLEASE someone else do testing on the dummies and provide a reply with your data. Personal stat builds will also vary this info and your 'mileage'.
I don't think TTK is a good metric for what weapon is best on Wrath WP. In my opinion our best chance to kill an enemy comes from burst. The only way we can get close to a real DPS burst window is when we have our auto-attacks crit at the same time as an ability. I think theres a sweet spot for slow speed weapons syncing with our global cooldown. I will need to do some tests to be sure, but I thought that was always a rule of thumb with DPS WP.
Montague
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Fridge - IB
Clokwerk - ENGI
Katie - Shaman

Orpheus66
Posts: 53

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#48 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:18 pm

A few questions,

1 - Levelling: How is DPS WP while levelling?
2a - Once I reach max should I go heal till I get some gear?
2b - If I do start as a healer when should I switch to DPS?

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yoluigi
Posts: 47

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#49 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:31 pm

Orpheus66 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:18 pm
A few questions,

1 - Levelling: How is DPS WP while levelling?
2a - Once I reach max should I go heal till I get some gear?
2b - If I do start as a healer when should I switch to DPS?
Just play the game and have fun you wont be the meta even in the endgame.
Personally i would level what you like and when you reach rank 40 try grace for a bit and switch to dps when you you get a few piece of gear and get yourself a tank friend to DUO.

duds
Posts: 3

Re: warrior priest dps, thoughts

Post#50 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:41 pm

BurnSetting wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:39 pm
So, I'm 82 now and I'm wearing 5pc Warlord/3pc off-Sov. I have all the best 2h hammers (Fortress Greathammer, Bloodlord, Truth, and Titan's Sledge of Reverence). Here's some of the things I've learned since my last post:

- New players are still hating on DPS WP because they want you to heal THEM. They don't understand that the spec is viable and will readily tell you this and that you're **** because you don't heal them. They miss the fact that this is literally a spec that is available, and thus in the game to be played. Solution: Don't rez them. They suck. Rez everyone else instead and point out that you're the only MDPS class on Order that can rez without a banner. #bestheal #doitlikejesus

- People who play with you often will find that they LOVE your ability to act as the Main Assist and ensure the party/WB absolutely DELETE enemies. Stacking even the 50% anti-heal on your opponents on top of the 2-5k damage you can do with BiS gear loadouts in under 4 seconds is very, very nice. Solution: Play with cool people, be positive, and have fun!

- Squishiness. It exists. When in a warband for oRVR or even 12+ person SC, if you get focused then you're dead. BUT!! This statement is true for ALL non-tank characters. Sooo... Welcome to Return of Reckoning! :D Solution: Watch your positioning, get a guard, and pre-hot yourself (every little bit helps). Use every trick in the book to make yourself more survivable including armor/toughness pots, rotation of lifetaps, and more. Either that or get used to dying and be suicidal like me. ;)

- Time-to-kill: I've tested the different weapons I mentioned using a statistical analysis approach (multiple data points) to ensure that the time-to-kill was consistent and adjusting for my own human errors + RNG of the game (crit, damage rolls, etc). I did this on the test dummies in Altdorf with the weapons and found that I can kill test dummies in the following time-frames:
- Bloodlord Sledge: 120-121 seconds
- Titan's Sledge of Reverence: 121-122 seconds
- Fortress GreatHammer: 125 seconds
- Truth: 126 seconds
This leads me to figure that Bloodlord sledge is perhaps NOT the BiS weapon. The loss of survivability is a huge blow for 1-5 seconds of time to kill on a target with 10's of thousands of HP. For Truth, the proc can give you and your team a big damage spike, but could be considered unreliable. If you're looking for "Ol' reliable" then stick with the Titan's sledge (oppressor weapon) or Fortress Greathammer. The extra crit chance they provide makes up for the loss you'd have going from BL sledge to Truth, the damage ratings and extra stats allow for survivability, and the anti-heal proc from the Fortress GH allows you to stack on 75% anti-heal on an opponent at times.
Personal preferences will apply here and you'll have to do your own testing, on the dummies and live enemies, to see which you think is best for you. Please, PLEASE someone else do testing on the dummies and provide a reply with your data. Personal stat builds will also vary this info and your 'mileage'.

- City time! Yes, DPS WP is viable in cities. Have you ever seen a DPS WP as a CHAMP?! Cuz I've been one and so have a couple other of the big bad DPS WP on the server. It's awesome for sure! I've out-damaged a LOT of main MDPS classes in cities. The reasons vary from gear, to guard vs no-guard, to positioning, to target priority. And yes, a well played and well geared WL or Slayer are going to out damage me. But damn do I keep up! Plus I provide silence and anti-heal to the fight which I've seen literally turn the tide of the champ fights.

- Weaknesses of the class still exist. A DPS DoK is still much better and more viable. Talk to Fixerr about it. He will tell you exactly how fast he dies to DPS DoK that are geared/good. And again, the same problems I outlined in my previously looong post still exist - Namely action economy, being locked down by far too much CC too easily, and the ease to which destro can shutdown our survivability skills. Every been Choppa pulled 3 times in a row and then sliced apart in the air? I have! How about Mara pull to knock down to silence and eventual death as you smash your keyboard for 5-10 seconds hoping to Sigmar that SOME ABILITY will fire off? Meanwhile destro are laughing at you.

- Strengths still exist and have been outlined here a bit already. We do decent to good damage against a wide variety of targets. We can rez. We can heal a bit. We have silence and anti-heal. We are a UTILITY MDPS spec. Not a PURE DAMAGE SPEC. And that's OK!!

- Some things I'd like to see are potentially easy changes that also don't break the game.
- One of the main problems being action economy and the "Ramp-up time" for DPS WP to get to their maximum potential... Relying on RNGeezus to crit and proc Guilty Soul 4 times isn't ideal. It's only quick if you're fighting in oRVR against a horde of enemies and you just smite 30 enemies. Watching those guilty soul damage numbers is fun, but the joy of that is usually greatly diminished by the RESPAWN prompt in the middle of your screen.
- Is there a way to change this to make it easier for us to get the damage bonus OR making Guilty Soul give all your WRATH abilities (and WRATH abilities ONLY) a flat damage bonus in addition to the DOT? Because I gotta tell you, running Guilty Soul as a Grace Spec was hella fun for a few days with that extra 20% damage, plus DOTs, plus AOE divine strike for 800-1500 lifetaps.
- Speaking of Action Economy, can we get something to help with that? Combine some things like the DoK? Make me not have to be a Pianist, like another person stated. If not that then...
- More survivability or Strikethrough. I don't want to kill everything and everyone willy nilly. A juggernaut of the battlefield is not what I wish to be. Given that though, how is a 2H Chosen doing 400 more damage than me PLUS still taking 4+ people 30 seconds+ to kill? How is a Sword Master doing 4500 damage to me in 5 seconds with Ether Dance (yes I duel occasionally). Why are TANKS the ultimate DPS?! I'm down for tanks having a DPS Spec. I'm a "healer" and I have one, so why not! But as a class who's Lore is that I'm a FRONTLINE BATTLE HEALER why am I getting laughed at by any tank who's in similar gear and specced for DPS? I'm curious as to how the hierarchy of DPS is envisioned by the team.
- Survivability could come from better Lifetaps. Hard to balance, I know. Maybe a 10% tap from Guilty Soul only to us and not our team? Would allow people to not have to guard us as much and make us less of a liability to a warband.
- Strikethrough could be just a slight increase to the 2h strikethrough across the board. I understand from other conversations that the dual-wield bonus more than mitigates the strikethrough. (Please someone comment on this with data/facts to back up or refute this statement!!!) 2h Chosen and other classes don't have to worry about this because they often have undefendable attacks or attacks that auto-bypass armor/defense stats. Our 25% armor pen every 60sec helps, but doesn't quite make up for this issue in full. (Thoughts?!)

Lastly, to Ototo who talked about WRATH spec having AOE Detaunt still... If you run AOE Detaunt in this spec then it's no wonder people think you suck as DPS WP. Because you do. It takes a tactic slot to do that and it's a worthless tactic as DPS since you will be doing AOE damage nearly non-stop if you're smart. Stop trying to be a healer as a DPS. You're making the rest of our lives harder. Be smart, be better. Run Guilty Soul, Fanaticism, Hastened Divinity, and Divine Fury.

Cheers!
What is your renow build if i may ask?

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