Uchoo wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:51 pm
detrap wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:32 am
Having 600-700 Weaponskill, with the equivalent or more in strength, +6% armor pen with warlord, and considering PS ignores 25% armor, combine with armour debuffs...You will do significantly more damage. Ask any good dps IB, they just do it better.
The imaged you reference only shows a player with 250 weaponskill. A knight can get upwards of 40-50% armor penetration from weaponskill alone.
The image clearly shows how damage would be different up to 700 Weapon Skill. That's how graphs work, they show how data is different as it changes. I don't see how you think a Knight with 50% armor pen doing between 30 and 75% damage unmitigated from armor alone (not including Toughness) comes anywhere close to a Knight dealing 70 to 100% damage (excluding Toughness) on all damage. Again, you are strictly wrong.
How about you check ANY of the evidence we posted? How about you post some of your own? Knight damage was okay at best with MS. Knight damage was okay at best before Runefang was destroyed.
Do you need MORE evidence? Fine, here's my Black Orc in good gear, not BiS gear but good gear.
2warlord/2sent/Sov. FO and Bloodlord Weapon, power tali, no event, no pot/lini
I strongly doubt that you are aware of what IB's are capable of doing, it's far greater than any other tank.
Edit: I have been given permission to post this. https://youtu.be/dNCD8wwYZe8
FO, Bloodlord Weapon. Sov and Ranked gear, rsc event, power tali, Inevitable Tempest.
I know what you are trying to explain. What it also shows is the less armour an opponent has, the worse armor pen will scale, the higher the armour the higher the penetration, however the damage will still be greater to a target with lower armour, considering what I also said that your strength will be of a similar number or higher. If you are only running high weapon skill then of course the table makes it look useless to stack. If you are only running high strength then that's where the crying about MS starts because you need weapon skill to compliment it. You also have to factor in critical hit damage also, which (as I'm aware of) is 30-55% increase of your base damage. Slightly bigger numbers still means bigger crits.
My knight with 1091 str and 409
ws hitting a 2h black orc
1061 str and 730
ws hitting the same 2h black orc
Using EC also puts me at 800 toughness and 1k wounds with this demonstration build.
Some players want RF back to its original glory but back then it buffed weapon skill by 240 which doesn't "scale" well according to the graph. It also buffs initiative that's not needed if you run 3/4 FS unless you wanted a dodge buff.
Is this weapon skill table what you made? Would love a link to it...
Nice Black Orc damage numbers, however you won't get far getting the RoR team to buff a class if you're comparing classes 1v1.
But here's my damage on a target (that has obviously no mitigation), with dominator/invader/warlord with no strength talismans.
With sov and a better sword could easily do 1700 with a crit damage bonus.
But what is the big issue if IB's can do double the knight numbers on a single target with no mitigation? You do realise knights dps tree is completely different to other tanks in the game?
2h knights theoretically give everyone a permanent (same cooldown as BG's equivalent but double the duration as well as a wounds debuff) 10% crit on the targets around it, debuffing their defences from up to two abilities at the same time.
The IB/SM/BO does more single target damage, what the knight falls behind in makes up for by raising the ceiling damage of all the order around them. We are lowering the dps bar in premade warbands if there is no 2h knight in it, especially in bombing groups.
Other tanks have crit tactics for their own benefit, knights have similar tactics for the entire realm/warband/party to use and abuse.
I feel like the more knights cry foul play over their dps abilities without trying to understand the class, the more likely the gap will be brought closer by nerfing the other tanks damage capabilities. Mighty Soul wasn't even originally applied to any abilities outside the Path of Glory tree.