Return of Reckoning

Xergon wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:05 pm On one hand i would agree that 2h Knight should have viable DPS source spec similar to what SM/IB and to all 2h Destro tanks. On other hand i would actually prefer to nerf all 2h Tanks DPS to be on similar level OR at least force them to pay proper price for it.

I personally never used this tactic once so i wont see the difference either as SnB or 2h Knight.

Im just surprised how many 2h wanna be pew pew DPS 2h Knights there are... kinda worrying from Order PoV...

There is a big penalty already for the group for being 2h, and that is healers have a lot more pressure on them to heal the tank more than usual, sacrificing focus heals for the dps.

Playing both chosen and kotbs as main character for years, here and on live.
Was using both Mighty soul and Discordant Winds, not always but very often especially on more offensive build (Yes offensive i said, not defensive equipment with 2h). And yes, even if it seems to be surprising to a lot of people it was used by some of us. This said some people seems to be really narrow minded concerning a chosen/kotbs in 2h.

We can't really complain or be "mad" at the team for this removal as without the time and investment of this same team we would not be able to still play WAR and enjoy it.

So it's clear that with or without MS and DW i'll still have pleasure to play my favorites tanks and i won't reroll because of this decision. As i'll continue to have fun with 2h as with a shield because every 2h tank is anyway supposed to have a shield/def equipment in his bag to switch depending on the context.

But, and that's why i took the time to write this message down, i find a bit sad that there was 0 communication with the community regarding this point, so we will deal with it (surprise !!) but it could have been implemented in a more mature way.

This said and speaking only purely offensive build (Not speaking of optimisation at all here) i would be curious to hear a bit more about the old runefang, and it's removal when Mighty soul was implemented. My chosen still have Daemonclaw and i find Oppressing Blows really confortable too in 2h..

If you've ever been in an Order Pug scen, the "off-specs" are actually more common than main spec due to all the brain dead pugs trying to LoL DPS healers, tanks, 2h Slayers, Melee Sniper Engi, and similar garbage.

Xergon wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:05 pm On one hand i would agree that 2h Knight should have viable DPS source spec similar to what SM/IB and to all 2h Destro tanks. On other hand i would actually prefer to nerf all 2h Tanks DPS to be on similar level OR at least force them to pay proper price for it.

I would argue that the recent Guard changes added a very hefty price to 2H tanks. It gets very hard to gear a 2H tank for damage as well as being able to survive Guard damage, and you have to play differently regardless.

Some of the strongest tank utility is tied to 2H so it still remains the best option (I.E. Blackguard) but it is definitely a lot tougher to stay alive, notable in large scale combat, but even in small-scale.

CountTalabecland wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:08 pm

Spoiler:

detrap wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:36 pm

Xergon wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:05 pm On one hand i would agree that 2h Knight should have viable DPS source spec similar to what SM/IB and to all 2h Destro tanks. On other hand i would actually prefer to nerf all 2h Tanks DPS to be on similar level OR at least force them to pay proper price for it.

I personally never used this tactic once so i wont see the difference either as SnB or 2h Knight.

Im just surprised how many 2h wanna be pew pew DPS 2h Knights there are... kinda worrying from Order PoV...

There is a big penalty already for the group for being 2h, and that is healers have a lot more pressure on them to heal the tank more than usual, sacrificing focus heals for the dps.

If you've ever been in an Order Pug scen, the "off-specs" are actually more common than main spec due to all the brain dead pugs trying to LoL DPS healers, tanks, 2h Slayers, Melee Sniper Engi, and similar garbage.

Yes exactly. 2h knight has more efficient skills to play an effective role and is needed as much as any other tank in a 24 man, mighty soul is not required it just made it easier to build a dps tank around strength instead of grinding gear for weaponskill builds.

How awful of a player do you have to be to die to a solo tank? The only thing a tank can kill 1v1 is a mdps or another tank. And MDPS should be smart enough to snare immune charge out. If you are playing RDPS and get flee AP potted maybe thats something you should consider doing as well, or prekiting etc... Everyone has the same movespeed in this game. I soloed A LOT on knight on live and the only people I could kill had brain damage and where too stupid to run away. If you are more than 30ft from a tank... they cant do anything to you. Detaunt is also a thing. And if you are dying in a scenario to a tank it's more likely the reason is you have no heals and if thats the case is it really the tank killing you or the awful teamcomp the scenario manager tossed out or the fact you are fighting without your healer?

To clarify here im not saying tanks would lose the 1v1, but that fighting a tank 1v1 is already a losing battle but something you can very easily just opt out of by walking away, detaunting and laughing at them if you have a healer nearby etc...

And Meanwhile you got **** like DPS AM/Shaman, or emplaced magus/engineer (i main two of these classes) that are extremely OP 1v1/1vX.

Starx wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:42 pm How awful of a player do you have to be to die to a solo tank? The only thing a tank can kill 1v1 is a mdps or another tank.

Htl- Quake- melee snare- Juggernaut- kill. If you have trouble killing rdps as tank, its a LTP issue on your side.

Zxul wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:32 pm

Starx wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:42 pm How awful of a player do you have to be to die to a solo tank? The only thing a tank can kill 1v1 is a mdps or another tank.

Htl- Quake- melee snare- Juggernaut- kill. If you have trouble killing rdps as tank, its a LTP issue on your side.

What I mean to say is that tanks have always been OP 1v1, people should be smarter then trying to fight them by themselves and just run away. They can't really hurt you. If im on BW and i see some 2h/snb chosen running at me im not gonna spill my spaghetti and try and fight him. If somehow one snuck up on me and im solo and have no chance of a heal or help ya I guess im **** but thats literally any class not at all a kotbs/chosen issue.

If you are dying to a Kotbs/Chosen through detaunt in a group with healers then something is going awfully wrong.

Starx wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:42 pm How awful of a player do you have to be to die to a solo tank? The only thing a tank can kill 1v1 is a mdps or another tank. And MDPS should be smart enough to snare immune charge out. If you are playing RDPS and get flee AP potted maybe thats something you should consider doing as well, or prekiting etc... Everyone has the same movespeed in this game. I soloed A LOT on knight on live and the only people I could kill had brain damage and where too stupid to run away. If you are more than 30ft from a tank... they cant do anything to you. Detaunt is also a thing. And if you are dying in a scenario to a tank it's more likely the reason is you have no heals and if thats the case is it really the tank killing you or the awful teamcomp the scenario manager tossed out or the fact you are fighting without your healer?

Meanwhile you got **** like DPS AM/Shaman, or emplaced magus/engineer (i main two of these classes) that are extremely OP 1v1/1vX.

100 100 100 100 100 100 100

Xergon wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:05 pm On one hand i would agree that 2h Knight should have viable DPS source spec similar to what SM/IB and to all 2h Destro tanks. On other hand i would actually prefer to nerf all 2h Tanks DPS to be on similar level OR at least force them to pay proper price for it.

I personally never used this tactic once so i wont see the difference either as SnB or 2h Knight.
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Im just surprised how many 2h wanna be pew pew DPS 2h Knights there are... kinda worrying from Order PoV...

Sure and in a month, forums will be full of "why order has no tanks uwu" posts. Tanks need some dps or they just get ignored. DPS and healers get focused first, tank can't keep it from happening because there's no way the tank can deter opponents, healers down, DPS down, then tank down.
A tank without dps is a punching bag with some utility. That's it. If you want low dps tanks, make their utility OP, then people have a reason to fear the tank and will focus it. Otherwise tanks are just useless eaters.

If you want to go all theorycrafting and meta crap, then why not go all the way and REMOVE all classes that aren't deemed acceptable by the devs in addition? Only Slayers, BW, AM, RP on Order then while destro has a full roster except WE and Magus, good luck with that lmao.