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[KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Knight of the Blazing Sun, Bright Wizard, Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest

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CptGeorges
Posts: 32

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#61 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:33 pm

When I say buff Myrmidia's fury, I am not necessarily saying "buff the damage it does." There are other ways to improve an ability then just damage. I just want to see it synergized with something instead of being a literal waste of mastery, AP, and GCD.

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ashton007
Posts: 352

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#62 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:55 pm

They really just need to put str back on runefang.. it’s so stupid to see knight have even worse damage than they did on live. I don’t understand the oppression/bias against tanks, 2h or not. Knight should be able to have damage similar to BG for the ST party knight...

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Fenris78
Posts: 395

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#63 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:28 pm

2H Knight have been butchered from everything that made the spec viable :
- no more Runefang to get remotely useful damage (from crap base damage)
- no more defensive buffs, skills or tactics ; the last one (Vigilance) got nerfed to SnB only.

You want 2H, you are basically papermade without any access to defensive skill saving your auras, and no damage thanks to low weaponskill and no armor debuff.

You will also hit less often because low strength (even with off gear), and no parry strikethrough, either on gear or tactic (whereas SM got 2 tactics and gear procs for that).

In the end, expecting anything from Conquest Tree is futile, better pick any of the other 2 tanks wich can deal twice the damage you can, AND be far more survivable running any 2H build.

I'm patiently waiting for a complete rework of the class, and very much enjoying my 2H SM in the meanwhile.

penagos22
Posts: 94

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#64 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:53 pm

To resolve this discussion you have to go to the first versions of the game:

kn conquest vs dread chosen

kn conquest:
https://web.archive.org/web/20081205050 ... aspx?id=10
it was built giving priority to parry, according to runefang's procs good damage would be done, be hard and could be used
smashing counter, more gear and RR the kn would hit harder, be harder to kill and could stun more. but it also provided utility to meele dps (crit debuff, wouds debuff,
aoe snare and defense chance debuff).

conclusions

1. Damage and tankiness were good if the conquest kn managed to generate agroo (aoe snare) on meele dps to trigger runefang procs.
2. good utility.
3. stack parry to use smashing counter.
4. allowed a softer build but more focused on damage.

His function was to do damage but also to offer utility basically "A Mastery path focused on destroying your enemies" maybe you will not be the one to destroy them but they will be destroyed.

dread chosen:
https://web.archive.org/web/20081207030 ... aspx?id=13
thanks to his enormous damage (much more than the kn's thanks to the critical build) he was able to destroy a single target and also we must remember that his damage was sustained over time.
less tankiness because he needed to stack more offensive stats but it was easier to stack defensive stats (with less rr invested) which gave him some balance but was intended to
do a lot of damage to a single target.

conclusions

1. Sustained damage to a single target. (much much damage)
2. The target you are being pressed for can basically do nothing.
3. should stack str and crit.
4. He did not offer as much utility to the group but he compensated that with a lot of damage.

His function was to cancel a dps and remove it from the game, basically the objective was to make the poor soul that was being targeted feel dread ... "A Mastery path focused on offense".

Myrmidia's fury and relentless:

MF: it did damage when runefag was up, since (I think it worked like this) MF had a damage that scales with str, so it did not deal a damage per hit but a base damage
in 3 seconds.
relentless: it did much more damage than MF for the critical build and str and also because relentless did damage per hit, this ability hit 5 times and each hit had
possibility of being critical and trigger crippling strikes.

which was better? They cannot be compared because they had different functions. sometimes it's better for everyone to hit hard, sometimes it's better not to let the best enemy dps play.

The problem currently is that although in theory the kn conquest and the chosen dread do the same as before it feels bad, it feels wrong
and this can be due to several factors:

1. people who do not understand that they are not equal.
2. the devs who listen to these people.
3. the devs trying to balance them by making them the same.
4. Remove tactics and change skills without understanding what the class is doing. This causes that when you play you feel that something is missing.

What would I do, wipe everything and change numbers only.

finally the most important thing and hopefully this is read by the devs:

The tanks must generate agroo because if they do not, people ignore them, in a game like this that is player vs player, the tank must have some damage
so that they are not ignored (I find myself many times in the situation where a healer is being hit by an enemy tank and my allies ignore it and so do I
because we all know that he will not kill the healer).

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ExcretusMaximus
Posts: 108

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#65 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:03 pm

ashton007 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:55 pm
Knight should be able to have damage similar to BG for the ST party knight...

Honest question: Why? BG isn't Knight's mirror, Chosen is; shouldn't Knight damage be comparable to Chosen while IB should be comparable to BG?
<Countered By Skill> & <RUN AWAY>
...........(active)...................(inactive)

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forsa
Posts: 112

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#66 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:13 am

ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:03 pm
Honest question: Why? BG isn't Knight's mirror, Chosen is; shouldn't Knight damage be comparable to Chosen while IB should be comparable to BG?
Initially KN was added to the game with some of the skills mirrored from bg (same as CH and IB).

On RoR server BG received huge buffs, including KN specific inc crit buff and easiest wounds debuff on crit (with CH 2 aoe wounds debuff for destro and 1 for order). Only thing that KN received form BG was useless (for kn) anti-detaunt tactic.

Also people who say that KN > CH are living in the past.
Currently CH counters (or has a better mirror of) everything available to KN except 3 targ snare.

MF is trash, there are no selfbuffs that increase you survivability as 2h KN now.

I suggest to swap RF and anti-detaunt tactics for a small 2h survivability buff.
MF should get same treatment as CH and BG - add the bonus to the 8 pt/ 10t tactics.
Something like 50% shatter Enchantment on MF (a la Mara) / change all conquest damage to elem or grant 50% armor ignore.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 363

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#67 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:07 am

forsa wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:13 am
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:03 pm
Honest question: Why? BG isn't Knight's mirror, Chosen is; shouldn't Knight damage be comparable to Chosen while IB should be comparable to BG?
Initially KN was added to the game with some of the skills mirrored from bg (same as CH and IB).

On RoR server BG received huge buffs, including KN specific inc crit buff and easiest wounds debuff on crit (with CH 2 aoe wounds debuff for destro and 1 for order). Only thing that KN received form BG was useless (for kn) anti-detaunt tactic.

Also people who say that KN > CH are living in the past.
Currently CH counters (or has a better mirror of) everything available to KN except 3 targ snare.

MF is trash, there are no selfbuffs that increase you survivability as 2h KN now.

I suggest to swap RF and anti-detaunt tactics for a small 2h survivability buff.
MF should get same treatment as CH and BG - add the bonus to the 8 pt/ 10t tactics.
Something like 50% shatter Enchantment on MF (a la Mara) / change all conquest damage to elem or grant 50% armor ignore.
KN should get old core runefang back for sure, it's sad to play knight and it feels so broken in many ways. BG got 2h KD in ror whilst having best KB in game = a bit too much imo when BG has 5 sec KD on block. BG used to have SM WodS like skill , i dont remember the name but when was it taken away and was 2h KD to replace that WODS like skill ? Terrifying foe is so good get 1k toughness without even trying for 20 seconds. Imo if compare to IB Parry buff should be at least 15 seconds + would it be OP if IB didnt need tactic to build grudge on attack or if IB had Runic Shield core ability?

EDIT; It was called none shall pass and it wasnt 2h like wods (my bad) but with shield https://web.archive.org/web/20081205050 ... 0:0:0:0:25
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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