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[Kotbs] Lower damage output justification (ex Slice Through Tactic discussion)

Knight of the Blazing Sun, Bright Wizard, Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest
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detrap
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Re: [Kotbs] Lower damage output justification (ex Slice Through Tactic discussion)

Post#51 » Mon May 17, 2021 12:23 am

Rapzel wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:52 pm
Spoiler:
detrap wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:56 pm
Rapzel wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 6:05 pm
It's not an important ability, it's bad compared to the alternatives.

In a ST party you're the kd + interrupt + wounds debuff preventing the target to escape.
IB gives up either single target damage or AoE snare to get their 2H KD.
For SM it's whispering winds or a lot of the DPS in your left tree (yea you can get ether dance and ww, but you'll lose great weapon mastery and balanced accuracy, or you get one of those and lose ether dance), this applies applies to all tanks, you have to choose between damage or utility.
This is pretty much a blessing for KotBS as it doesn't have the option to try and go for damage but is based upon pure utility making it the most solid tank archetype in the game.

Imagine seeing these types of threads from RP and Zealots whining about how bad their damage is compared to AM/Shaman.
Yes its highly optional for ST party, otherwise you are gimping your 2h spec for the warband by only being able to do half your job to help the dps max their damage output. You also make blackguards look like a better class by not running it.
Yea I forgot that Black guard has:
Several AoE ±stat boosts.
15% heal increase to everyone in your group, that stacks with Blessing of Chaos.

As a side note before you go on your BG is OP rampage, it removes 10% parry and block, while SI removes 10% of all defenses.

We bringing up BO next because BO and KotBS both have a 1200 m3?


As a side note before you go on your BG is OP rampage, it removes 10% parry and block, while SI removes 10% of all defenses.

Well the BG's one is more powerful atm since there isn't a counter ability on Order side when Knight's are being told not to spec for theirs because they want a 8 tanks with knockdown ability in their warband for ORvR.
Knight 8x - IB 8x - SM 8x / Chosen 3x - BO 4x - BG 5x

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Rapzel
Posts: 390

Re: [Kotbs] Lower damage output justification (ex Slice Through Tactic discussion)

Post#52 » Mon May 17, 2021 10:15 am

detrap wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:23 am
Rapzel wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:52 pm
Spoiler:
detrap wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:56 pm

Yes its highly optional for ST party, otherwise you are gimping your 2h spec for the warband by only being able to do half your job to help the dps max their damage output. You also make blackguards look like a better class by not running it.
Yea I forgot that Black guard has:
Several AoE ±stat boosts.
15% heal increase to everyone in your group, that stacks with Blessing of Chaos.

As a side note before you go on your BG is OP rampage, it removes 10% parry and block, while SI removes 10% of all defenses.

We bringing up BO next because BO and KotBS both have a 1200 m3?


As a side note before you go on your BG is OP rampage, it removes 10% parry and block, while SI removes 10% of all defenses.

Well the BG's one is more powerful atm since there isn't a counter ability on Order side when Knight's are being told not to spec for theirs because they want a 8 tanks with knockdown ability in their warband for ORvR.
1. You don't run with a 2h in ORvR, you have it for small scale and single target group in city.
2. There's several other tactics and abilities on order that removes avoidance.

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detrap
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Re: [Kotbs] Lower damage output justification (ex Slice Through Tactic discussion)

Post#53 » Mon May 17, 2021 3:53 pm

Rapzel wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:15 am
1. You don't run with a 2h in ORvR, you have it for small scale and single target group in city.
2. There's several other tactics and abilities on order that removes avoidance.

:? :? :? :? :?
Knight 8x - IB 8x - SM 8x / Chosen 3x - BO 4x - BG 5x

Rapzel
Posts: 390

Re: [Kotbs] Lower damage output justification (ex Slice Through Tactic discussion)

Post#54 » Tue May 18, 2021 11:42 am

detrap wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:53 pm
Rapzel wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:15 am
1. You don't run with a 2h in ORvR, you have it for small scale and single target group in city.
2. There's several other tactics and abilities on order that removes avoidance.

:? :? :? :? :?
I would take you seriously if you argued for a revamp of Path of Conquest and swap the channel with SI or something (obviously this change would require wielding great weapon), now that chosen has Corruptive power and through rending blade spam keep it up almost 100% of the time.
But you don't, you keep arguing about how this 10% avoidance reduction is better than focused mending or a reliable CC.

Slayer requires rage drop (and full berserk), WL needs pet, SM needs perfect balance, SW needs to spec one of their two and has stance requirements, minor issue tbh but in ST if you do quick swaps applying healdebuff is way more important.
Being able to use smashing counter ON DEMAND to have your team catch up with a target, knock down a tank so that it can't guard swap or disable a healer is more important than 10% avoidance removal.

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detrap
Posts: 352
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Re: [Kotbs] Lower damage output justification (ex Slice Through Tactic discussion)

Post#55 » Tue May 18, 2021 1:05 pm

Rapzel wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:42 am
Spoiler:
detrap wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:53 pm
Rapzel wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:15 am
1. You don't run with a 2h in ORvR, you have it for small scale and single target group in city.
2. There's several other tactics and abilities on order that removes avoidance.

:? :? :? :? :?
I would take you seriously if you argued for a revamp of Path of Conquest and swap the channel with SI or something (obviously this change would require wielding great weapon), now that chosen has Corruptive power and through rending blade spam keep it up almost 100% of the time.
But you don't, you keep arguing about how this 10% avoidance reduction is better than focused mending or a reliable CC.

Slayer requires rage drop (and full berserk), WL needs pet, SM needs perfect balance, SW needs to spec one of their two and has stance requirements, minor issue tbh but in ST if you do quick swaps applying healdebuff is way more important.
Being able to use smashing counter ON DEMAND to have your team catch up with a target, knock down a tank so that it can't guard swap or disable a healer is more important than 10% avoidance removal.

1. You don't run with a 2h in ORvR, you have it for small scale and single target group in city.

The wounds/crit/defenses debuff are all AoE, how is all that only for small scale or single target builds?

Do all 4-8 Knights in a warband need a knockdown in the blob vs blob world of ORvR? They can catch targets running away easier with Heaven's Fury. If the knockdown is a must, do all Knights need FM for ORvR? Is 15% extra heals better than 120 wounds debuff and 10% strikethrough for the entire warband? With tactics, you already get 25% extra heals from a RP, WP is 20% and AM is up to 40%. What you lose not using FM, you also gain by using usually a more useful baseline aura.

Doks lack a wounds buff so the Knight's debuff is strong when used before a morale drop, coupled with 10% strikethrough from SI to support the dps doing channels after their morale. The SM and IB don't have issues using theirs. If they are 'chasing down a target' then the SM has time to Bubble > Sudden Shift, IB's also have an instant with 2h and SnB (via block from guard)

Why not use ability that most likely stacks with Pierce Defenses? How is Rending Blade spam superior to that?
Knight 8x - IB 8x - SM 8x / Chosen 3x - BO 4x - BG 5x

Sundowner
Posts: 468

Re: [Kotbs] Lower damage output justification (ex Slice Through Tactic discussion)

Post#56 » Tue May 18, 2021 2:25 pm

>Not having 1-2 2hander knights in WB for debuffs
>never gonna make it

Rapzel
Posts: 390

Re: [Kotbs] Lower damage output justification (ex Slice Through Tactic discussion)

Post#57 » Tue May 18, 2021 4:22 pm

detrap wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:05 pm
Rapzel wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:42 am
Spoiler:
detrap wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:53 pm


:? :? :? :? :?
I would take you seriously if you argued for a revamp of Path of Conquest and swap the channel with SI or something (obviously this change would require wielding great weapon), now that chosen has Corruptive power and through rending blade spam keep it up almost 100% of the time.
But you don't, you keep arguing about how this 10% avoidance reduction is better than focused mending or a reliable CC.

Slayer requires rage drop (and full berserk), WL needs pet, SM needs perfect balance, SW needs to spec one of their two and has stance requirements, minor issue tbh but in ST if you do quick swaps applying healdebuff is way more important.
Being able to use smashing counter ON DEMAND to have your team catch up with a target, knock down a tank so that it can't guard swap or disable a healer is more important than 10% avoidance removal.

1. You don't run with a 2h in ORvR, you have it for small scale and single target group in city.

The wounds/crit/defenses debuff are all AoE, how is all that only for small scale or single target builds?

Do all 4-8 Knights in a warband need a knockdown in the blob vs blob world of ORvR? They can catch targets running away easier with Heaven's Fury. If the knockdown is a must, do all Knights need FM for ORvR? Is 15% extra heals better than 120 wounds debuff and 10% strikethrough for the entire warband? With tactics, you already get 25% extra heals from a RP, WP is 20% and AM is up to 40%. What you lose not using FM, you also gain by using usually a more useful baseline aura.

Doks lack a wounds buff so the Knight's debuff is strong when used before a morale drop, coupled with 10% strikethrough from SI to support the dps doing channels after their morale. The SM and IB don't have issues using theirs. If they are 'chasing down a target' then the SM has time to Bubble > Sudden Shift, IB's also have an instant with 2h and SnB (via block from guard)

Why not use ability that most likely stacks with Pierce Defenses? How is Rending Blade spam superior to that?
8 KotBS WB with 2hs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxo_K7JLZxQ

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Nefarian78
Posts: 460

Re: [Kotbs] Lower damage output justification (ex Slice Through Tactic discussion)

Post#58 » Tue May 18, 2021 5:05 pm

E TU
They done stole my character's names. Can't have **** in RoR.

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