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[WH] Living in the post-NB world

Knight of the Blazing Sun, Bright Wizard, Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest
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abezverkhiy
Posts: 551

[WH] Living in the post-NB world

Post#1 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:25 pm

Alright. This will be a long post but for lazy readers I will post conclusions I came to comparing the results of 2 evenings of playing my Witch Hunter - one was with Nerfed Buttons and one without it. By some fortuitous twist of things in my head I decided to test some cosmetic changes to my build just one night before NB was banned so next day I ran the same test but without NB and compared numbers. This way I got 2 data sets - same gear, same level, same build minus just 1 tactic.

Allora ragazzi, short version for lazy readers.
Q1 Did output change strongly?
A1 For Torment - Yes, for auto attacks - NO (What???)
Q2 Is there a way to replace NB with something else?
A2 Yes, but...
Q3 Will our output be the same?
A3 Possibly...

Now the long version. Like I said I was lucky to obtain two similar data sets. By saying similar I mean the size - both had several hundreds of auto attacks and the difference in amounts of auto attack was less than 10%! So the amount of fighting was very similar. This is good news.

Another good news is that I managed to find a solution for many (not all) conditional checks NB used to do for me. It is not a perfect substitute, it is more like driving a Honda after you drove a Mercedes but it is better than walking. The name of the substitute is Aura.

Bad news is that no matter what certain output numbers went down, but with further practice I hope to improve them. Another bad news is that I need to forget about certain abilities and the build I liked.

OK, onto the damage results.

First, my build - it was an armor penetration build relying on hitting with Torment when positional requirement was satisfied or to keep Blessed Blade buff on by spamming Absolution (without regard to the number of combo points) and using other combo generators when Torment was not meeting its positional requirement.

On Day 1 I had Blessed Blade (last day when NB was legit) but I removed BB on Day 2 (after NB was blocked because counting 3 sec in my head to reapply Absolution is a mission impossible). Other things stayed the same - 13 points in Confession and 9 points in Judgement.

The NB sequence was:
1. Sever Blessing (if doable)
2. Torment (if behind the target)
3. Absolution (If no Blessed Blade buff)
4. Confess! (if doable)
5. Otherwise Seeker's Blade
6. Otherwise Razor Strike

Let's look at the changes to each of these 6 components and auto attacks after NB was declared an outlaw:

Auto attack damage values stayed the same on Day 1 and Day 2. So the fact that I lost ArPen buf on Day 2 did not matter. WHAT??? The only explanation I have is that my enemies lost their ability to auto cast defensive spells on Day 2 just as I lost the ability to have my white damage upgraded with ArPen buff all the time. A tit for tat situation. 

Sever Blessing was the first ability in my sequence and the NUMBER of times I used it on Day 2 dropped 11(!) times. And this is despite the fact I found a way to get a big message on my screen when SB was usable. This is a bummer. Not discussing its damage values - SB is not for damage.

Torment. Average damage of Torment dropped by roughly 25%. No need to explain why - positional checks are no longer working.

Absolution was #3 in my sequence. Now I stopped using it, damage has never been sexy, I only used it in conjunction with NB to keep Blessed Blade buff on. Now the buff is lost I can use that GCD on something else that gives better damage than 1-2 points Absolution.

Next in my sequence was Confess! Similar to Sever Blessing I now get a big warning on my screen when Confess! is usable. And you know what? The number of times I used Confess with and without NB was the same! Bizarre, isn't it - SB usage dropped 11 times, Confess! usage did not change? I guess this is because Confess! was preceded by SB, Torment, and Absolution and they blocked Confess! from being used most of the time. So it looks like NB blocked further in sequence abilities.

This finding is further confirmed by the result of the ability #5 in my sequence - Seeker's Blade. Same number of usages with and without NB means that the first 3-4 abilities consume almost every chance for ability #5 to be autoused. Hey you! You, who say that NB allowed long sequences with just one button - yeah it allowed. In theory. In practice the 'tail' abilities almost never had a chance to be used.

Number 6 was Razor Blade which I stopped using without NB. With NB it was a gap filler and the sequencer triggered it like 20 times during a night full of fights. I am talking of 4-5 hours of non-stop RvR. So RS was used like 5 times an hour. What's the point of having it on my hotbar??

So conclusions:
1. NB is/was good for the first 2-3 abilities only. Others do not get a chance to be used. So if you had a long sequence like I did then output suffered regardless without you even knowing that.
2. Loss of NB does not matter for auto attacks that are usually the best (or second best) source of damage. Unexpected result but it does exist.
3. Torment becomes weaker and this is bad because it is usually also a source of damage either #1 or #2. It is what it is. And it is logical.
4. Usage of conditional abilities (SB or Confess!) is hindered too. This is another bad result. Receiving a screen message USE SB and having it used automatically are two different stories.
5. Damage from bullets went down too. This was partially offset with 5 combo points finishers I am able to use now. Previously Absolution was shooting every 3 seconds (so bullets caused damage every 3 sec too) and the only time when it did not was when I constantly hit targets in the back which was very rare.

So damage did become weaker but not every source of damage. Done with the numbers moving to the Honda-and-Mercedes part.

Aura sends you notifications when certain conditions are met. Examples:

- you are detaunted
- you have 5 combos
- you are low on health
- conditional ability like Sever Blessing can be used
- ability is off its cooldown (Incognito or Feinted Positioning eg)
- etc

Here is a brief video, have a look and play with the addon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Ua9UUv-4I
if the link dies then see the channel of JasonWarRoR. I do not know him. I found his easy tutorial.

Notifications can be screen messages, screen pulsing or fading. You can play with the color gamma of notifications, so after a few hours of playing I became like Pavlov's dog - screen fades red - I have 5 combos, screen fades grey - low on health, yellow - Confess! is usable etc.

Play with this addon. It will not replace NB but it should partially compensate for the loss.

For the conclusion I want to speculate if we can ever achieve similar results in the post NB world. Maybe. We know now that NB was not good at automating everything but just a 2-3 abilities from our arsenal. After some good practice we will be laughing at the time when the loss of NB looked like a drama. Let us not forget - everyone lost their chance to be stronger with NB not just Witch Hunters.

Good luck to us all and happy hunting.
KingSchultz WH, Valknutt WP, Glendhu ENG, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL

My WH guide: viewtopic.php?t=46354

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warlover
Posts: 382

Re: [WH] Living in the post-NB world

Post#2 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:32 pm

Learn how to play without cheating add-ons Get Gud

User avatar
Drednes
Posts: 87

Re: [WH] Living in the post-NB world

Post#3 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:33 pm

cheat addon is dead adapt to normal gameplay

vobex16
Posts: 94

Re: [WH] Living in the post-NB world

Post#4 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:34 pm

abezverkhiy wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:25 pm Alright. This will be a long post but for lazy readers I will post conclusions I came to comparing the results of 2 evenings of playing my Witch Hunter - one was with Nerfed Buttons and one without it. By some fortuitous twist of things in my head I decided to test some cosmetic changes to my build just one night before NB was banned so next day I ran the same test but without NB and compared numbers. This way I got 2 data sets - same gear, same level, same build minus just 1 tactic.

Allora ragazzi, short version for lazy readers.
Q1 Did output change strongly?
A1 For Torment - Yes, for auto attacks - NO (What???)
Q2 Is there a way to replace NB with something else?
A2 Yes, but...
Q3 Will our output be the same?
A3 Possibly...

Now the long version. Like I said I was lucky to obtain two similar data sets. By saying similar I mean the size - both had several hundreds of auto attacks and the difference in amounts of auto attack was less than 10%! So the amount of fighting was very similar. This is good news.

Another good news is that I managed to find a solution for many (not all) conditional checks NB used to do for me. It is not a perfect substitute, it is more like driving a Honda after you drove a Mercedes but it is better than walking. The name of the substitute is Aura.

Bad news is that no matter what certain output numbers went down, but with further practice I hope to improve them. Another bad news is that I need to forget about certain abilities and the build I liked.

OK, onto the damage results.

First, my build - it was an armor penetration build relying on hitting with Torment when positional requirement was satisfied or to keep Blessed Blade buff on by spamming Absolution (without regard to the number of combo points) and using other combo generators when Torment was not meeting its positional requirement.

On Day 1 I had Blessed Blade (last day when NB was legit) but I removed BB on Day 2 (after NB was blocked because counting 3 sec in my head to reapply Absolution is a mission impossible). Other things stayed the same - 13 points in Confession and 9 points in Judgement.

The NB sequence was:
1. Sever Blessing (if doable)
2. Torment (if behind the target)
3. Absolution (If no Blessed Blade buff)
4. Confess! (if doable)
5. Otherwise Seeker's Blade
6. Otherwise Razor Strike

Let's look at the changes to each of these 6 components and auto attacks after NB was declared an outlaw:

Auto attack damage values stayed the same on Day 1 and Day 2. So the fact that I lost ArPen buf on Day 2 did not matter. WHAT??? The only explanation I have is that my enemies lost their ability to auto cast defensive spells on Day 2 just as I lost the ability to have my white damage upgraded with ArPen buff all the time. A tit for tat situation. 

Sever Blessing was the first ability in my sequence and the NUMBER of times I used it on Day 2 dropped 11(!) times. And this is despite the fact I found a way to get a big message on my screen when SB was usable. This is a bummer. Not discussing its damage values - SB is not for damage.

Torment. Average damage of Torment dropped by roughly 25%. No need to explain why - positional checks are no longer working.

Absolution was #3 in my sequence. Now I stopped using it, damage has never been sexy, I only used it in conjunction with NB to keep Blessed Blade buff on. Now the buff is lost I can use that GCD on something else that gives better damage than 1-2 points Absolution.

Next in my sequence was Confess! Similar to Sever Blessing I now get a big warning on my screen when Confess! is usable. And you know what? The number of times I used Confess with and without NB was the same! Bizarre, isn't it - SB usage dropped 11 times, Confess! usage did not change? I guess this is because Confess! was preceded by SB, Torment, and Absolution and they blocked Confess! from being used most of the time. So it looks like NB blocked further in sequence abilities.

This finding is further confirmed by the result of the ability #5 in my sequence - Seeker's Blade. Same number of usages with and without NB means that the first 3-4 abilities consume almost every chance for ability #5 to be autoused. Hey you! You, who say that NB allowed long sequences with just one button - yeah it allowed. In theory. In practice the 'tail' abilities almost never had a chance to be used.

Number 6 was Razor Blade which I stopped using without NB. With NB it was a gap filler and the sequencer triggered it like 20 times during a night full of fights. I am talking of 4-5 hours of non-stop RvR. So RS was used like 5 times an hour. What's the point of having it on my hotbar??

So conclusions:
1. NB is/was good for the first 2-3 abilities only. Others do not get a chance to be used. So if you had a long sequence like I did then output suffered regardless without you even knowing that.
2. Loss of NB does not matter for auto attacks that are usually the best (or second best) source of damage. Unexpected result but it does exist.
3. Torment becomes weaker and this is bad because it is usually also a source of damage either #1 or #2. It is what it is. And it is logical.
4. Usage of conditional abilities (SB or Confess!) is hindered too. This is another bad result. Receiving a screen message USE SB and having it used automatically are two different stories.
5. Damage from bullets went down too. This was partially offset with 5 combo points finishers I am able to use now. Previously Absolution was shooting every 3 seconds (so bullets caused damage every 3 sec too) and the only time when it did not was when I constantly hit targets in the back which was very rare.

So damage did become weaker but not every source of damage. Done with the numbers moving to the Honda-and-Mercedes part.

Aura sends you notifications when certain conditions are met. Examples:

- you are detaunted
- you have 5 combos
- you are low on health
- conditional ability like Sever Blessing can be used
- ability is off its cooldown (Incognito or Feinted Positioning eg)
- etc

Here is a brief video, have a look and play with the addon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Ua9UUv-4I
if the link dies then see the channel of JasonWarRoR. I do not know him. I found his easy tutorial.

Notifications can be screen messages, screen pulsing or fading. You can play with the color gamma of notifications, so after a few hours of playing I became like Pavlov's dog - screen fades red - I have 5 combos, screen fades grey - low on health, yellow - Confess! is usable etc.

Play with this addon. It will not replace NB but it should partially compensate for the loss.

For the conclusion I want to speculate if we can ever achieve similar results in the post NB world. Maybe. We know now that NB was not good at automating everything but just a 2-3 abilities from our arsenal. After some good practice we will be laughing at the time when the loss of NB looked like a drama. Let us not forget - everyone lost their chance to be stronger with NB not just Witch Hunters.

Good luck to us all and happy hunting.
Also we won't forget that WH doesn't have many buttons to play with :)) https://www.twitch.tv/Aurrek

abezverkhiy
Posts: 551

Re: [WH] Living in the post-NB world

Post#5 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:34 pm

Well... 20+ buttons for sure and adding potions and macros like /assist etc. I have 3 hotbars active and they are almost full.

But the thing important for WH/WE is that you watch your enemy and your health all the time. When I play IB, WB or ENG I can look at abilities icons too to see cooldowns/usability. When I play this glass cannon I simply cannot lose concentration and that is why addons are so handy.

Yeah need to git gud, I know. I was not born with wings.
KingSchultz WH, Valknutt WP, Glendhu ENG, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL

My WH guide: viewtopic.php?t=46354

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