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[WP] Shield WP in oRvR

Knight of the Blazing Sun, Bright Wizard, Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest
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Bloodmasked
Posts: 200

Re: [WP] Shield WP in oRvR

Post#11 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:22 pm

abezverkhiy wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:46 pm Hey guys,

I came across this thread about shield DoKs and I was surprised to see a discussion instead of usual stuff 'they are not viable etc'. viewtopic.php?f=73&t=45452

So how do shield WPs survive in rvr? Can they be good? What are the challenges? Strengths, if any? Did they get any better lately because of some patch? Is there future for them?

P.S. Rydiak no disrespect but please refrain from posting a link to your guide of 2019. It is everywhere. Your deeper analysis would be welcome though.
honestly its not a great idea to play shield wp in RVR, since RVR is very rough and zergy. you will definitely want a 2nd healer just to top up hp, or else your group will just slowly die to dots since your only good ranged heal is 20 sec cooldown. shield doesn't really provide enough damage to justify being at risk in the frontline, although its can in situations be tankier than book since you aren't affected by healdebuffs. but it should work fine in scenarios if you happen to enjoy those.

even a fully kitted out shield isn't very strong. i have done full dps shield and you don't do much damage. if you do full tank shield however its pretty decently tanky. shield can be good cos its especially effective against low level noobs in orvr so you can bully people even though you are outnumbered which is nice, alot of noobs won't even try to kite you if they are ranged so they will just lose to your superior self sustain.

the class mechanic is pretty easy to manage, just maintain over 100 at all times so you can always throw out your big channel heal if needed. however since i play dok and not wp, i'm not sure if shield wp is supposed to take Sigmar's Shield or not because im unaware if that scales from willpower or strength, and this ability consumes alot of resource i believe.

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Bloodmasked
Posts: 200

Re: [WP] Shield WP in oRvR

Post#12 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:26 pm

also i would just ignore the thread you put in the first post. those guys don't seem like they actually know what to do with shield wp/dok. if you intend on playing either then definitely do not make a "hybrid" spec as they suggest because that will just mean you have weaker shield heals and weaker book heals instead of just having one of them be strong...

...you have to choose to be either a willpower/healcrit healer, tanky healer (wounds/toughness/armor/negative crit), dps shield (high strength/crit), tanky shield (especially block/parry stacking), or somewhere in between glass cannon and tanky. generally i advise not to do armor talismans, not because its better/worse, just because its super expensive to buy them.

ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: [WP] Shield WP in oRvR

Post#13 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:40 pm

No one seems to mention it but 1k str even for shield spec is still very important.

Bloodmasked
Posts: 200

Re: [WP] Shield WP in oRvR

Post#14 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:51 pm

ashton007 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:40 pm No one seems to mention it but 1k str even for shield spec is still very important.
do you mean for increased damage/heals, because i don't think it affects output very much.

but if you mean for preventing being blocked/parried then perhaps, but im unaware of the exact formulas. but if i had to guess, i think you only need to have "enough strength" to avoid being blocked/parried most of the time and having high/capped strength doesn't help that much more in this case.

i was doing between 700-800 strength with a tanky build, the only thing that was giving me extra strength was str talismans. that tanky build was needed for ranked 6v6 scenarios because being high strength made me way too squishy and i just died too fast.

ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: [WP] Shield WP in oRvR

Post#15 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:22 pm

Bloodmasked wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:51 pm
ashton007 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:40 pm No one seems to mention it but 1k str even for shield spec is still very important.
do you mean for increased damage/heals, because i don't think it affects output very much.

but if you mean for preventing being blocked/parried then perhaps, but im unaware of the exact formulas. but if i had to guess, i think you only need to have "enough strength" to avoid being blocked/parried most of the time and having high/capped strength doesn't help that much more in this case.

i was doing between 700-800 strength with a tanky build, the only thing that was giving me extra strength was str talismans. that tanky build was needed for ranked 6v6 scenarios because being high strength made me way too squishy and i just died too fast.
700-800 is too low for me, you’re easily countered with some fat toughness and already depending on armor debuff.

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Scottx125
Posts: 965

Re: [WP] Shield WP in oRvR

Post#16 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:26 pm

Physical damage is still subject to damage reduction, WS also provides strike through for parry. And in any case I should clarify you will be at near 400WS with top end gear without any investment.
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Bloodmasked
Posts: 200

Re: [WP] Shield WP in oRvR

Post#17 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:27 pm

Scottx125 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:26 pm Physical damage is still subject to damage reduction, WS also provides strike through for parry. And in any case I should clarify you will be at near 400WS with top end gear without any investment.
weaponskill gives you a tiny bit of parry, strength is for strike through. not sure the exact formulas though.

ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: [WP] Shield WP in oRvR

Post#18 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:29 pm

Scottx125 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:26 pm Physical damage is still subject to damage reduction, WS also provides strike through for parry. And in any case I should clarify you will be at near 400WS with top end gear without any investment.
And if you geared right 9% flat pen from warlord.

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Bloodmasked
Posts: 200

Re: [WP] Shield WP in oRvR

Post#19 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:32 pm

ashton007 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:22 pm
Bloodmasked wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:51 pm
ashton007 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:40 pm No one seems to mention it but 1k str even for shield spec is still very important.
do you mean for increased damage/heals, because i don't think it affects output very much.

but if you mean for preventing being blocked/parried then perhaps, but im unaware of the exact formulas. but if i had to guess, i think you only need to have "enough strength" to avoid being blocked/parried most of the time and having high/capped strength doesn't help that much more in this case.

i was doing between 700-800 strength with a tanky build, the only thing that was giving me extra strength was str talismans. that tanky build was needed for ranked 6v6 scenarios because being high strength made me way too squishy and i just died too fast.
700-800 is too low for me, you’re easily countered with some fat toughness and already depending on armor debuff.
damage is just linear formulas so it doesn't matter what their toughness is. if someone has more toughness then they have less strength. as a healer i need to be tanky or else the entire group dies if im under too much pressure.

ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: [WP] Shield WP in oRvR

Post#20 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:00 pm

Bloodmasked wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:32 pm
ashton007 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:22 pm
Bloodmasked wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:51 pm

do you mean for increased damage/heals, because i don't think it affects output very much.

but if you mean for preventing being blocked/parried then perhaps, but im unaware of the exact formulas. but if i had to guess, i think you only need to have "enough strength" to avoid being blocked/parried most of the time and having high/capped strength doesn't help that much more in this case.

i was doing between 700-800 strength with a tanky build, the only thing that was giving me extra strength was str talismans. that tanky build was needed for ranked 6v6 scenarios because being high strength made me way too squishy and i just died too fast.
700-800 is too low for me, you’re easily countered with some fat toughness and already depending on armor debuff.
damage is just linear formulas so it doesn't matter what their toughness is. if someone has more toughness then they have less strength. as a healer i need to be tanky or else the entire group dies if im under too much pressure.
This is what a shield does for you, with 30% block. Still obtainable with 1kstr, I like 5 warlord/2sentinel/2sov. Sentinel helm has 2 block, can get 6% block in your sent ring too for an easy 8 block. But their toughness being linear matters why? You’re typically attacking healers or squishy dps, anything else as a target just exhibits lack of skill. Most other healers are stacking toughness and armor, your direct counters (besides range). Shield wp is truly the best healer in the game for everything except for forts, it just requires someone with hands and eyes.

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