[WP] PLEASE, "GRACE" SHOULD BE MORE TANKY NOT MORE DPSY

[kam080]

Grace WP is a vey hard class to play. We must be build in defense, but e need damage to heal our team mates.

The dev team nerf a lot the WP grace when they remove the AOE detaunt and the spiritual damage of "Sigmar's Radiance", but it is still playable. The only problem is you need a train a lot with your mates to fast swicht guards because you will need sometimes if 2-3 DPS focus on you, it even with 30% and 50% parry in BiS. Other healers can survive against 2-3 DPS without guard for 10-12seconds, but a Grace WP can't do it.

It is true the lifetaps are not affected by Heal's debuff, but, the Detaunts, Distracting Bellow and M4 morale from tanks is like a outgoing heal debuff for us. Too the absor skills/pots and punts do the Grace WP can't heal nothing.

A grace WP is weaker than a Book WP.

Tank deal a CC also needs to damage enemies, "Need damage to heal is not a problem when the grace healing scales for mastery point, not STR"

Making grace more defensive is not the only way, but the now situation is that dps grace is hard to survive, I think sacrificing DPS to be more defensive should be the better way.

[kam080]

I've played Grace BiS and it's disappointing to say the least. IMO It's trying to be too many things, a Tank, a Healer and a Dps. And it does none of these as well as it should. It's a high risk playstyle going onto the frontlines as a healer spec. And the payoff just doesn't feel good. Most time's you'll get ganked and die. Salvation will generally out heal you because they live longer and have better healing spells. As Grace you have one reliable group heal as part of your DPS rotation. That's it. And you might say "Well sure, but you're also tanky and do more damage than salvation". Sure. But doing 10x more damage of a salvation spec WP isn't much to talk about. Especially when you'll probably be doing less damage compared to most tanks. And you're only slightly more tanky. You're still gonna die pretty quick.

I'll go back to my original idea of what a Grace WP should be. A DPS healer. You can go shield spec or hammer spec. You rush into battles casting heals with RF. You then regenerate that RF with your melee damage abilities and melee healing abilities. It should be a balance of using your AP and RF. Also, why the Grace spec has not HoT melee heal I've no idea. Soulfire should have a Grace equivalent that siphons off enemy health and returns it to the group as healing every tick.

I think you said that tank is a tank, heal is a heal, dps is a DPS, then Hoeth SM is a sub-heal tank, MARA is a sub-cc (tank) DPS, and the healer must be a straight healer?

When you compared with kotbs and SM, SM is easier to die than kotbs and IB, Hoeth SM has their utility of course.

In RVR, maybe it should be a one-way tome wp.

[anarchypark]

Grace becomes tanky heal should be better than DPS heal for most situations.

agree, but it's OP.
2 healers are needed to save a target from assist of 2 dps + tanks.

1. any less than current healing means it's not a healer in a grp.
2. maintain current heal value and give more tanky? OP
3. flat heal value from mastery? It's same as 1. and 2.
less flat heal = no healer.
same flat heal ( easy ) and more tanky = OP.

official server gave up the melee heal.
It's that hard.
RoR version works at least.
like any other healers, when you got focused you need support.
and extra awareness.

[Gargis]

There is a spectrum of targets for the Grace WP. In that variation, you still need to weave your defensive abilities with melee heals. You can not rely on exclusively on the RF or AP generated attacks to heal.

The risk is where is the best balance between dps output and self defense. If your are killed to easily the point is moot. If you play it like a dps class you will be disappointed.

There is latitude provided by gear, but I opt on the side of caution. Like any other healer, when focused you need a guard swap and cross heals.

Stop trying to play it like a DOK and dps class and I think most ppl will get better results.

[Scottx125]

Spoiler:

Grace is a healer using melee to heal.
not dps nor tank.
anytime you focus on dps number or mimic snb tank, healing performance decreased.
dps part is for healing.
tank part is to survive at melee.
both exist to support melee heal.

it's busy and difficult class.
I'll describe my rotation, there's no time to slack
other than healing.

AP aoe melee heal + RF aoe melee heal,
2 spam rotation provide constant fluff grp healing.
plus resource management.

channel and heal proc for burst heal.
need big resource reserved and fill up after use.
heal target clicking depend on assist swap.

all the while maintaining block/parry/str/tough buffs.
same time searching squishy and avoiding threats.
if there's ranged counter play,
detaunt, snare/root break and rdy life cost emergency heal.

it's not easy ( boring ) like book wp.
don't play like guarded slayer and expect healing is done automatically,
it's not and shouldn't.

reason to play hard and risky healer?
It's fun, challenging and looks grace.

I know how to play Grace spec. My point is it's not rewarding when Salv can easily out heal it standing behind the tank line. If you're on the frontline taking all the risk, the reward should be easily as great. Sure you can play a class because it's risky and fun. But if it doesn't perform well in it's niche. You won't have it taken anywhere outside PUG SC's. There are only 2 places Grace is viable (and still performs worse than Salv spec WP) and that's city and SC's. And I'd also add while Salv spec is easier to play, it's still not as easy as you might think. It's all about positioning and rationing of your RF, combined with the fact that WP's should be right behind the tanks and dps not back with the RDPS and long range healers.

My point is, what do you get from Grace that is better than Salvation? You become slightly more survivable (I'd argue not as you have to get into melee), do slightly less healing than salvation (you lose all your good HoT due to 45% reduction in casted heals) and do a fraction more damage. Considering the whole point is you're meant to be hitting things generating heals and putting yourself at more risk doing so. I would have expected Grace to at least do something significantly better then a Salv WP sitting behind tanks. Considering a Grace WP's whole point is to heal in melee. We can dispense with the damage and have all it's heal abilities do spirit damage (only 1 or 2 do atm). That'll boost damage numbers and heal numbers slightly. On top of that, Grace should have some type of melee HoT ability. Even if it's only as good as the base version of Pious Restoration.

[Valarion]

The various gear sets (and renown) options available allow you to already make your Grace WP very hard to kill. While str based builds are a bit low on wounds, the problem isnt wounds so much is that a well placed KD pretty much means instant death without support.

Overall, Grace is in a very good place right now and is arguably borderline op in small scale. I really dont think any changes are necessary atm, especially with so many other classes requiring tweaking.

[penagos22]

The various gear sets (and renown) options available allow you to already make your Grace WP very hard to kill. While str based builds are a bit low on wounds, the problem isnt wounds so much is that a well placed KD pretty much means instant death without support.

Overall, Grace is in a very good place right now and is arguably borderline op in small scale. I really dont think any changes are necessary atm, especially with so many other classes requiring tweaking.

1 stun and you are dead pal..

[anarchypark]

IMO, front melee line is most important in any battle, any scale.
and grace add 1 more body to it.
same time supporting that front.
this alone worth than salv.

when enemy focus on you and survive long enough, it means enemy wasted dps.
your slight better tanky and ok healing make difference.

salv only perform healing.
grace do all 3, weaker than proper classes.
when performed well team got each added role.
jack of all trade.

I don't want OP class, that's all.
any more is OP. less healing is out of option for healer.
maybe less dps but same heal. but how? any idea?

[kam080]

Grace becomes tanky heal should be better than DPS heal for most situations.

agree, but it's OP.
2 healers are needed to save a target from assist of 2 dps + tanks.

1. any less than current healing means it's not a healer in a grp.
2. maintain current heal value and give more tanky? OP
3. flat heal value from mastery? It's same as 1. and 2.
less flat heal = no healer.
same flat heal ( easy ) and more tanky = OP.

official server gave up the melee heal.
It's that hard.
RoR version works at least.
like any other healers, when you got focused you need support.
and extra awareness.

I think grace wp should do less healing than book wp, it would be a fair trade of being tanky, maybe make more absorbing skills for grace: more protection contribution for filling the less healing gap in a group.
It would be not so OP when improving the function of absorbing damage skills instead of flat healing as book wp.

[penagos22]

3 ideas here

make shielding grace heal the party or the allies around on parry, block, disrupt, etc. and shorter cd
allow builds with 2h
allow sacrifice heal on move and heal allthe allies around