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[SW] Eye Shot and class direction

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage
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Manatikik
Posts: 1249

Re: [SW] Eye Shot and class direction

Post#11 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:27 am

Klesko wrote:
Manatikik wrote:
Klesko wrote:
No one said re-roll and with that type of attitude i don't think many people will wanna try and "help" you.
You're reading text on a forum. This portrayal of "attitude" is little else but conjecture on your part. That said, much love to you, brother, and all the opinions you hold =D. More to the point, you telling me that scout doesn't really work was not terribly useful feedback to me, nor was it accurate to my experience playing the class and spec, but of course you're entitled to your own opinion on the matter, and I'm entitled to disagree with it. Playing as a skirmisher or assault is basically all that has been implicated in this thread, and I think that's a terrible situation for those who enjoy playing the Scout spec and are feeling the loss of an invaluable tool of the kit that is readily available to basically any SW not playing the scout spec. That's all I wanted to convey and discuss. Much love, no attitude. /hug?
Actually just said Scout isn't great in open skirmishes. I'm currently still messing around with Scout builds (WL keeps taking my attention away) so i feel the pain/fun of Scout atm and the weakness are all too obvious and are the same reasons Engi's arent that strong: standing still is death.

ES won't be changed back; while it is pretty core to SW having it behind the 14 point investment quells some of the "order bias" cries that honestly is kinda worth the pain of it being locked away. Once you play without it enough you get used to it honestly; makes you realize how nice Throat Shot really is in Scout.
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Arteker616
Posts: 413

Re: [SW] Eye Shot and class direction

Post#12 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:34 am

Klesko wrote:Assault Shadow Warriors and Skirmisher Shadow Warriors have access to a Knockdown. Us Scout Shadow Warriors are left out in the cold. I have basically no recourse for WE's that open up on my backline healers, which is what our KD was absolutely essential and designed to do! (Maybe I'm lucky and have M1 saved up and I haven't spent it already to save my own hide ><) Was there any justification for stripping Eye Shot from the class? It's kind of a core mechanic to the class... Literally and figuratively (or was).

I feel my role greatly diminished in situations where I previously could shine with a keen eye to the situation as it evolves around me, a quick hand, and snap decision making for swapping stances and using the full kit of my class.

Are the SW changes going to be reverted back? Shall I shelve the SW for now because I don't care to get railroaded into a different spec that I don't want to play? Where is this class headed and are we going to have our core abilities restored to us!?
If a WE opens in your backline u can use ur rkd , or switch and try to disarm her if u close with OS.

Ur role as rdps should be always providing assist and healdebuff, u not a tank, taking care of backlines is a job tank and the main reason healers have detaunts and other healers to make that WE thing doesnt happen or if happen be cut in half by ur tank team and other healers.

Dps classes should have minimum CC and actualy as SW u have pherhaps one of the best CC tools arsenal on this game outside tank classes ,

all this thread smells of give me more buff me more and more crying without providing a logic of why a dps should be taking care of a backline.

p.s i dont understand SW moans for having to stance dance , marauders , shs , magus, engis wls , all have to micromange their classes in a similar way of stance dance to actualy be better, and profit more .

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [SW] Eye Shot and class direction

Post#13 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:29 am

Why are you acting like a moany margaret to people who are trying to help you? You have ample means of dealing with melee/CC; it's called stance swapping/careful CC usage. You're not supposed to have everything in one toolkit. The allure to Scout is the long-range burst DPS it can do (in theory, at least). At high enough RR, you can pick up the KD from Skirmish if you so wish.

If, by your own admission, Scout is working really well for you, you'd know this...?

I do, however, empathise with what you're saying (ass/skirm both have access to rkd, while scout stance doesn't), but believe this is necessary - lest people swap to scout stance for an easy range buffed rkd.
Last edited by peterthepan3 on Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Klesko
Posts: 67

Re: [SW] Eye Shot and class direction

Post#14 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:32 am

[/quote]
If a WE opens in your backline u can use ur rkd , or switch and try to disarm her if u close with OS.

Ur role as rdps should be always providing assist and healdebuff, u not a tank, taking care of backlines is a job tank and the main reason healers have detaunts and other healers to make that WE thing doesnt happen or if happen be cut in half by ur tank team and other healers.

Dps classes should have minimum CC and actualy as SW u have pherhaps one of the best CC tools arsenal on this game outside tank classes ,

all this thread smells of give me more buff me more and more crying without providing a logic of why a dps should be taking care of a backline.

p.s i dont understand SW moans for having to stance dance , marauders , shs , magus, engis wls , all have to micromange their classes in a similar way of stance dance to actualy be better, and profit more .[/quote]

I'm not sure I follow you here... or perhaps you didn't follow anything I wrote. I never once moaned about stance dancing. I think it's an integral part of the SW and something that separates the great players from the... room to improve players.

Just to be clear, a Scout spec'd SW does NOT have access to the rkd... a scout can no longer switch, as you say, and rkd. That was the fundamental point made in this thread. Both Skirmisher and Assault spec'd SW's have access to a KD, a Scout does NOT. (Not since recent changes)

I didn't claim the SW is a tank or is meant to be. No one has. The role of the SW, as you say, has not changed from what it has always been, except that now one of the three specs for a SW is denied a fundamental piece of their kit that the other two specs are not denied.

No one is crying give me more buffs. And what logic needs to be provided for a dps protecting the backline when said dps IS THE BACKLINE!? A similar argument perhaps would be taking away a snare from a tank class and saying it's up to others to provide CC or position themselves better?

Please read the original post before derailing what was said. Thank you.

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SilverWF
Suspended
Posts: 606

Re: [SW] Eye Shot and class direction

Post#15 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:51 am

Is there any class that have range KD too (even high in the trees)?
I can remember BW only in the not quite popular DOT-tree.
Also WE/WH has it (but never take) with pretty low range.
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Arteker616
Posts: 413

Re: [SW] Eye Shot and class direction

Post#16 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:37 am

Klesko wrote:
If a WE opens in your backline u can use ur rkd , or switch and try to disarm her if u close with OS.

Ur role as rdps should be always providing assist and healdebuff, u not a tank, taking care of backlines is a job tank and the main reason healers have detaunts and other healers to make that WE thing doesnt happen or if happen be cut in half by ur tank team and other healers.

Dps classes should have minimum CC and actualy as SW u have pherhaps one of the best CC tools arsenal on this game outside tank classes ,

all this thread smells of give me more buff me more and more crying without providing a logic of why a dps should be taking care of a backline.

p.s i dont understand SW moans for having to stance dance , marauders , shs , magus, engis wls , all have to micromange their classes in a similar way of stance dance to actualy be better, and profit more .[/quote]

I'm not sure I follow you here... or perhaps you didn't follow anything I wrote. I never once moaned about stance dancing. I think it's an integral part of the SW and something that separates the great players from the... room to improve players.

Just to be clear, a Scout spec'd SW does NOT have access to the rkd... a scout can no longer switch, as you say, and rkd. That was the fundamental point made in this thread. Both Skirmisher and Assault spec'd SW's have access to a KD, a Scout does NOT. (Not since recent changes)

I didn't claim the SW is a tank or is meant to be. No one has. The role of the SW, as you say, has not changed from what it has always been, except that now one of the three specs for a SW is denied a fundamental piece of their kit that the other two specs are not denied.

No one is crying give me more buffs. And what logic needs to be provided for a dps protecting the backline when said dps IS THE BACKLINE!? A similar argument perhaps would be taking away a snare from a tank class and saying it's up to others to provide CC or position themselves better?

Please read the original post before derailing what was said. Thank you.[/quote]
for each class of this game each three provide benefeits , u gotta pick one and play adapting urself to each of the tools the threes give you,
following ur logic , why bw doesnt have CC tools on the aoe three or the single target path ,,, why tanks if want to spec for kd have to pick three,,,,,,

u make 0 sense and in my opinion u just crying for buff me .

if u are in scout takes 1 hotkeysto drop drop ur secs kd .

the goal of tanks having superior snares is exactly to prevent enemys to rush ur backline, if the tank fails on this is the player behind the tank and not the class who has serious issues.

abilitys on scout hits hard and in special some of them provide SW with some of the best anti rdps tools on this game , u have a skill wich reduce the ranged dps enemys distance, u have a very strong finisher , and the biggest hittinng ranged single target skill in the game .

u havent yet provided any relevant point of what fails on the scout three on ths post, u just claimed u cannot defend ur healers from super evil wes sneaking in your backlines, mind you not a special effort or knowledge of the class or effort into details of why u should be dealing with one and why u not gonna use anothers tools u have to deal with her wich requiere to press some buttons and that not even make u have to use a spec point to achieve .

Klesko
Posts: 67

Re: [SW] Eye Shot and class direction

Post#17 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:00 am

@Artekar616 you've twice now derailed this conversation.

I feel like I made a little bit more than 0 sense (maybe 10% of sense?).

I haven't once cried for a buff. In any of my posts.

Scout spec still doesn't have access to RKD (or any KD). I've already made this point. That was a fundamental point of this thread.

I'm having trouble following most of your post, and a lot of it doesn't seem relevant to the conversation. If you would like to dissect or address the issues I raised in my original post, and let's stick to that, that would be wonderful. Thank you.

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Skalier
Banned
Posts: 100

Re: [SW] Eye Shot and class direction

Post#18 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:19 am

1. You can't switch stance when WE attack you because there is not time for this.
You die before stance will be cheanged.

2. Scout stance was good until lvl 40 because Festering Arrow and Flame Arrows ignore all enemy resistances but is not worth to play on lvl 40 because Lileath's Arrow that requires Skirmish stance is much better.

3. Eagle Eye dealing good damages but is not worth to build your tactic on this ability because for good efect need 2 tactics. And all scout stance is useless on 40 lvl.
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footpatrol2
Posts: 1093

Re: [SW] Eye Shot and class direction

Post#19 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:51 am

So I predominately play destro. I personally think it is a mistake that Eye shot is not baseline like how it used to be. I think it creates imbalance in this game. Btw SH still has the ranged knockdown coming from the pet which is great and now we got 2 of them because horned is knockdown. The pet knockdown is a Ghetto Eye shot.

I also think you guys are smoking crack thinking that scout is not a good spec. I use a big shoota SH group with 3 or 4 sh's in a group. The tactic slot fit we run doesn't include run away or the auto detaunt because the tactic setup is SO Tight. The ap damage scout SW can do is straight up better then the big shoota SH group, which btw 100% ok with.

LA requires a lot of resources. You need a tank to reliable put down the damage or you'll get eaten because your too close.

Scout doesn't need that. You play in and out of 100ft range. Use the 1 sec No Quarter tactic. Run 3 or 4 scout SW single target assist time your burst = win. Your bursting down a target before the healer's can even respond. Btw it's not like you don't have access to LA when the situation calls for it but it does what 100 or 200 less damage. Oh well not that big of a deal.

Scout really shines in a keep defense WHEN you are not having to move a ton. Pick a target, burst him down, plow through your ap, then hide to recharge ap while searching for a new target, rinse repeat. Have your sniper team target squishies or major morale bomb components and blow them up. If your killing major morale bomb components with your sniper team your potentially dampening the opposition's morale bombs or straight up saving 9 player's from instant death.

All these spec's are situationally good and player's should get out of self identifying with a spec and never swapping. You should be swapping spec's dependant to the situation your in and the team you have available at the time. Pre-planning is everything

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lefze
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Posts: 863

Re: [SW] Eye Shot and class direction

Post#20 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:11 am

If you want to play scout in any pug-ish setting you need eye shot, more so than FtW. There is a choice to be made, invest fully on a stationary, burst only spec or go for something like RoR.builders - Shadow Warrior
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