[WL] Guardian spec ?

[Delenot]

It works just fine, those who claim it lacks burst miss the understanding of how to use it.

As I play Axe/Hunt spec I too am very interested in how to get this spec to perform. I have heard/read both extremes from this spec (Which usually means it has some hidden gems.) How do you use it to its potential?

[Foomy44]

Do you HAVE to be tanky in order for Guardian to max it's dmg?

I feel eventually your pet will die in Orvr even when soloing, so hitting like a tank and not actually being one doesn't sound right for a meele dps class.

Mind if I ask Torque you said the spec works fine if you know how to use it ? What would you call the correct spec for the guardian tree? One that achieves what it was meant to do . Thanks

Your cat's strength is increased by your wounds from items. Your cat's weapon skill is increased by your toughness from items. So yeah, if you want your cat to hit hard, you need to be improving your defensive stats, don't see any way around it. And if you don't want your cat to hit hard, why are you guardian spec? There's 2 other trees for people that wanna focus on the elf instead of the cat.

Your cat is on a 15 second CD. Just because it dies doesn't mean the fights over, especially if you are tanky enough to easily survive 15 seconds. When I dueled torq's (pretty sure it was him) beastmaster he was using the same talent setup I do and the fight was very close (he won because I went for him first instead of the pet).

If you wanna see a dev talking about the builds viewtopic.php?f=42&t=23732&hilit=secrets&start=130 second post down (im not a fan of brute force in a guardian build personally but it works)

I assure you defensive spec guardian is plenty viable. As for "One that achieves what it was meant to do", this is from the original guardian rework thread:
Trained to Kill - This ability now grants initiative to the player and boosts the Lion pets Strength by the Wounds the player has from items and Weaponskill from the Toughness that a player has from items. The stance now correctly benefits those who play support to the Lion pet as opposed to giving the most benefit to those who go full on dps.

Buffing your cat while staying tanky enough to distract people from focusing on it is exactly what this spec is meant to do. What you quoted from Torq was related to the guardians burst being fine if you know how to use it. The burst is from Leonine Frenzy, simple as that, pop it and use a normal WL rotation, with some CC thrown in if needed.

[alusnova]

Thanks Catnap very informative , I will say the main reason why I choose Guardian was for the knockdown but I still prefer to do most of the damage myself.

Obviously they (devs) reworked the Guardian tree to bring it along the lines of being support to your pet. I have to now decide what do I want to really do as a WL . Like few here I don't have the kind of gold to re gear talis, etc. Heck I have not even been able to to buy my 60% mount so that's why we wanted good advice on this tree to commit to it.

[Delenot]

Very interesting! Is the use of the Stalker tactic vital? Meaning, with this spec is the lion more a glass cannon? (Which would validate why you need the tactic.)

Also, the delve on Furious Mending seems low. Does it scale with stat/spec to become something useful in combat? Or is this just a down time decreasing tactic?

[Foomy44]

Very interesting! Is the use of the Stalker tactic vital? Meaning, with this spec is the lion more a glass cannon? (Which would validate why you need the tactic.)

Also, the delve on Furious Mending seems low. Does it scale with stat/spec to become something useful in combat? Or is this just a down time decreasing tactic?

Stalker is vital but not because it makes your pet tankier, I believe it's +str, +crit chance, and + move speed for your pet, can't think of any scenario where you should ignore it if you are high enough in guardian to get it. Furious Mending is 240hp every 5 seconds on you and your cat. It's benefit has nothing to do with downtime, it's healing is the reason I can last long enough to win 1v3's or beat tanks 1v1 and it's also one of the only ways you have of keeping your pet alive. Another must take IMO for small scale stuff at least, if you have pocket heals than feel free to drop it.

[Delenot]

Thank you for the explanation! I certainly see the importance of those tactics,

Does Leonine Frenzy do enough damage to justify not taking Forced Opportunity?

[Foomy44]

Thank you for the explanation! I certainly see the importance of those tactics,

Does Leonine Frenzy do enough damage to justify not taking Forced Opportunity?

LF isn't just the damage on the tooltip FYI, it's also +strikethrough, + armor pen, and + move speed for your cat. Your cat is beast mode while it's up, almost all my kills happen because of it, it's pretty much the reason your cat is to be feared in guardian. Must have IMO. FO is a lot more useful in a group, but in solo play I get along just fine without it (I've honestly never spec'd for it once, rolled this toon to try out guardian changes and no regrets). At lvl 40 RR 40 if you know you are going to be in a good group and really wanna take it I would drop Baited Trap, Furious Mending, and Echoing Roar so you could fit in both LF and FO (would have to skip pounce too). The first 2 because you got a group to keep you alive so hopefully can get by with the lowered durability, and Echoing Roar is pretty useless if you aren't pro at using it to cancel important casts (anyone know of an addon for this? would love to see enemy cast bars). Echoing Roar is more trouble than it's worth sometimes since the dot ticks break your AoE detaunt. IMO the more important question is whether or not the top mastery points in guardian are worth giving up for FO since each point in the tree gives your cat more stat points than the previous ones so those last few points might be huge. Real hard to tell since they took away .getstats from our pets 8-(.

[Delenot]

Is there a specific rotation you would recommend for initial burst?

[Foomy44]

Is there a specific rotation you would recommend for initial burst?

I should probably spend more time figuring the best one out but IMO everything else I can do pales in comparison to Leonine Frenzy so I never really paid much attention. Keep baiting strike tactic buff up always if you have it. After I pop LF then I just pack assault, coordinated strike, and then either baiting strike spam till other CDs are up (or sundering chop spam if you are behind them) or blindside and lion's fury before bait spam if they are tankier and gonna survive the burst since I think those do more damage over time. Could be wrong. Try to make sure you got full AP by the time LF comes off CD so you can burst alongside your cat.

[kryss]

Interesting topic. My guardian WL has conq, full genesis and subj axe, and can blow up anyone in very few shots with leonine frenzy up. Tactics are stalker, flanking, BF, pack synergy, spec is FO, pounce, Leonine Frenzy, Brutal Pounce and then just points in the guardian tree (no Baiting, no Furious mending, no roar). I believe FO is still very useful, cause it boosts the pet's DPS by a good margin too (2x benefit). I play solo for 99% of the time and 1 on 1s and 1 on 2s are easy. And it's very easy to bring someone to the grave too, when chased by a party or WB too: pounce back and burst, most of the times they dont expect it. I'm definetely not sure about this setup, I don't think it was envisioned by devs to be the new guardian type of WL, but it's still effective and works in SCs too. When I get the SC weap and a couple of dominator pieces, I'll try the tanky spec: seems that mixing 3x str bonuses (4x beastlord, 2x domi, 2x conq, 1 free slot for shoulders, being ruin, conq, or overlord) and add wounds talismans might be the key