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White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage
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theoddone
Posts: 127

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#151 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:32 pm

I don't see why WL's can't do solo roaming or small scale with the changes.

Still got the best mobility, fantastic burst, and bring great debuffs.

What's the problem?
-Theo

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soliticks
Posts: 74

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#152 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:37 pm

Azarael wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:49 pm
soliticks wrote:...
You're continuing to miss the points being raised.

Guardian could not be fixed for the actual scales for which the game is balanced.

It's not a question of tuning. You even admitted it yourself when you objected to my statement about extremes in 6v6 by saying that the pet gets killed every time. If you're saying that the spec is crap in 6v6 and it's also crap in warbands, then all that leaves is solo play which you know full well we don't balance for... yet you're subsequently appealing to in your post. Nerfing the Guardian spec to balance it in roaming play would do nothing for 6v6 and warband scale, which means that would be a balance change directed at 1vX which we do not do and never will do. Not only that, it would continue to lock WL out of a viable warband scale spec because your spec is putting a lock on trees that needed to be refactored to make it useful in what people say is the main part of the game. That's unacceptable.

Again - I know full well what this boils down to, and you've helpfully admitted it for me. You were crushing face in solo / roaming. That's what you want to keep, to the extent that you're now trying to speak for everyone who plays a White Lion, even though we know from this topic that quite a few aren't in agreement with you. Order needs a class that's viable in every part of the game. That consideration trumps - every single time - your wish to keep an overpowered roaming spec, and it also trumps any consideration about keeping a class feature which is a glorified NPC.

Lastly - my post promised certain things. One obvious one is that you get a voice. I'm here, now, expending my effort to set forth my opinion, and you're not being sanctioned simply because you disagree with me. I did not promise never to do anything controversial again - I wouldn't have even bothered coming back if that were the case, because major change is always controversial.
Azrael, keeping our roaming capabilities is different from smashing face. I stated in my post that you should nerf the Guardian spec as you see fit. BUT leave us a roaming spec. It is why White Lions love their class so much. I mentioned earlier that the Melee Squig Herder is a great example of a viable roaming spec that isn't overblown. Please leave us something similarly viable and balanced. Once again, small-scale is the reason White Lions are White Lions.

I feel like you keep believing what you want to about me. Your analysis of me is this: "He wants to keep Guardian the way it was because he can go around being a god 1 v 1 and wrecking everything he sees uncontested. He doesn't really care about warbands at all".

On the point of warband play, you are correct. It's not an aspect of the game I enjoy. In fact, I've probably been in maybe 10 warbands in my entire time played across all my characters. But I've been in more solo/3/6 man roam groups than I can count. THIS is my interest, and THIS is the interest of White Lions in general. I'm NOT asking for Guardian back the way it was. I'm ASKING for you to leave us one viable small-scale/roaming spec so we can retain the PLAYSTYLE we love. As far as how powerful you will allow that to be, I DON'T CARE. As long as we have something, I'm happy.
Last edited by soliticks on Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chriz (Swordmaster 6x)
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Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#153 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:41 pm

So let's be clear: your only concern is that there is a spec that will work for roaming, regardless of whether that spec is pet-centric or not?

soliticks
Posts: 74

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#154 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 pm

I don't care how you do it Azarael. Just leave us the core purpose of our class please. Any roaming spec is fine, as long as it's strong enough to fulfill its purpose. And of course, please leave us the standard 6v6 viable spec as well. Pet...no pet...it doesn't matter. Although as an animal-lover, I personally love the idea of pet classes. But it's up to you. *ehem* and by viable, I mean it has to be able to stand up to the godly WE :P
Chriz (Swordmaster 6x)
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Kalt
Posts: 103

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#155 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:52 pm

well , what about mirroring completely the white lion on marauder ?

Problem solved .

In the eyes of Order , marauder are the ultimate killing machine , relentless and unstopable.
Then give us what they want.

This way , maybe they're going to understand marauder are not what they think we are.

soliticks
Posts: 74

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#156 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:58 pm

Kalt wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:52 pm well , what about mirroring completely the white lion on marauder ?

Problem solved .

In the eyes of Order , marauder are the ultimate killing machine , relentless and unstopable.
Then give us what they want.

This way , maybe they're going to understand marauder are not what they think we are.
Marauders are godly in a group. One stat to focus on opens up any defensive stat as a secondary. A heal debuff that heals them on a 5 second cooldown. Armor debuff, no pet liability, solid mobility, less of a death liability than Choppa, Monstrosity stance in oh **** situations, a finishing ability, constant constant back-loaded burst...it's a SOLID class all around. It is so well-designed in an "all around" sense, that many have called it the "perfect class". And it certainly is a great class. Each tree is so well done that it has barely been touched since live. Each mastery tree can basically be its own standalone spec without needing to push points into others. Very polished. What they lack is front-loaded burst, and that's what's popular nowadays. It's why you don't see a lot of Marauders. Try doing the Beastlord quest order side. You run around hoping to see a Marauder somewhere. You should see how fast WE fills up on your quest bar. Took me 10 minutes in a warband.
Chriz (Swordmaster 6x)
Criz (Runepriest 4x)
Chrizx (White Lion 8x)
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Kalt
Posts: 103

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#157 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:08 pm

soliticks wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:58 pm
Kalt wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:52 pm well , what about mirroring completely the white lion on marauder ?

Problem solved .

In the eyes of Order , marauder are the ultimate killing machine , relentless and unstopable.
Then give us what they want.

This way , maybe they're going to understand marauder are not what they think we are.
Marauders are godly in a group. One stat to focus on opens up any defensive stat as a secondary. A heal debuff that heals them on a 5 second cooldown. Armor debuff, no pet liability, solid mobility, less of a death liability than Choppa, Monstrosity stance in oh **** situations, a finishing ability, constant constant back-loaded burst...it's a SOLID class all around. It is so well-designed in an "all around" sense, that many have called it the "perfect class". And it certainly is a great class. Each tree is so well done that it has barely been touched since live. Each mastery tree can basically be its own standalone spec without needing to push points into others. Very polished. What they lack is front-loaded burst, and that's what's popular nowadays. It's why you don't see a lot of Marauders. Try doing the Beastlord quest order side. You run around hoping to see a Marauder somewhere. You should see how fast WE fills up on your quest bar. Took me 10 minutes in a warband.
marauder is perfect in the sense of all aspect of the game can be played , without overperforming.

We can play in wb as a monstro.
we can have a slot in 6v6 as a melee assist of a choppa or a WE
we can do solo roam in sav or bruta/sav .

But none of this build are overperforming. Your not going to have the burst of a WE and a choppa. your not going to do aoe damage like a sorc , choppa , or even a SH.

Imo , i'm totally in for giving lots of marauder skill/tactic to the white lion.

you already got the finisher equivalent (cull the weak), the impale equivalent(sundering chop) , the armor debuff (force opportunity) , the heal debuff (and yours don't need a tactic to debuff 50% , our is 25% base and with a tactic it s 50 % with 25% life leech), a greater mobility (the best in all the game imho) the thing you missed are monstro proc and eventually the armor bypass tactic .


Can i have your pounce in return ? :roll:
Last edited by Kalt on Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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GodlessCrom
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Posts: 1297

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#158 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:10 pm

Witch Elves are 80s psycho elven ninja girls in thongs. Marauders are hairy dudes in loincloths with a crab claw. There may be other factors at hand deciding which class is more prevalent than another ;)
Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king!

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Penril
Posts: 4441

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#159 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:18 pm

soliticks wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 pm I don't care how you do it Azarael. Just leave us the core purpose of our class please.

Who told you the core purpose of WL was solo roaming? Any changed based on that assumption will be a bad change tbh.

soliticks wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:04 pm
As far as warbands go, I agree with you completely. Guardian simply had no place in it. But then again, nearly NONE of us rolled the class to fill that niche warband setting. We rolled it for 3/6 man teams and roaming.

You don't know the reasons why other players rolled a WL. You certainly don't talk for 100% of them.

So far, all i get your from your posts is that you used to solo roam on a OP class/spec and are mad that it got nerfed/changed, then use false claims to try and get those changes reverted. I hope balance team doesn't listen to you.

soliticks
Posts: 74

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#160 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:24 pm

Penril wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:18 pm
soliticks wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 pm I don't care how you do it Azarael. Just leave us the core purpose of our class please.
Who told you the core purpose of WL was solo roaming? Any changed based on that assumption will be a bad change tbh.
soliticks wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:04 pm As far as warbands go, I agree with you completely. Guardian simply had no place in it. But then again, nearly NONE of us rolled the class to fill that niche warband setting. We rolled it for 3/6 man teams and roaming.
You don't know the reasons why other players rolled a WL. You certainly don't talk for 100% of them.
Of course I don't speak for all White Lions. Nor am I even one of the better ones out there. But I am a very active player, I do have a lot of experience with nearly all classes, and I am social enough to maintain contact with many different players and guilds in this game. Based on that experience, I can say with some confidence that people who play White Lions are generally not big fans of warband or zerg-type play. We are a class that has always excelled at small-scale fighting. This includes roaming at times. I apologize if I purported to be some kind of White Lion representative. That's definitely not the case, and that role doesn't even exist.
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