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Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage

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sogeou
Posts: 216

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#41 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:30 pm

Reading this is funny. SW are currently weak in one area as of now, that would be Scout stance. The DPS takes too long and range is too poor. If they added a range of 200 feet to that stance it might make it more useful. As there are too many times when trying to attack and cannot use moves as they take too long and are out of range.

With that said Melee SW is a very good DPS.

4k Armor.
Can hold 2k DPS with ease.
Spamable 1.4k damage move.
60% +Parry some people can get to 80%.
Can crit up to 80% on all moves.
Great tools, all types of CC. Strong interrupt, disarm, melee KD, ranged snare, ranged KD, AoE snare
Gap closer



If you are having issues with Melee SW and it is DPS related, you might need to see what it is you are doing wrong. Being able to hit for over 2k with move is pretty good. Melee SW IMO is second BEST single target melee DPS on order, things which could hurt that argument are snare / root break ( M2 can be used ) and non tactic aoe detaunt.


Not many melee dps hitting for 2600 damage for a single move. ( not done in warcamp )

https://imgur.com/yCH0fOX

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xcact
Posts: 6

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#42 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:53 am

My alt is a SW, 40/61. Some personal observations and opinions up to this point:

Scout is extremely underwhelming and not worth consideration past level 6. It's like playing a BW with no AoE, significantly worse dots, no utility, no scaling damage, that can barely tickle oil and rams, and has the ability to face-tank one or maybe two more hits from a Choppa before dying.

Skirmish is a fun spec, and you can comfortably ride it from 6 to 40 in PvE, scenarios, or oRvR. It's capable of some cute memery, like stacking Split Arrows or Barrage with Explosive Shots and firing into huge oRVR blobs. Once you hit 40 and queue into your first big boy scenario, however, you'll feel like you just ran face-first into a brick wall, and your Spiral Arrows will be getting outhealed by Shaman HoT ticks. That being said, so long as Shadow Sting exists, I think this spec will have viability in both organized SCs and RvR, IF you and your groupmates both realize that you are a SUPPORT DPS, and you play like one.

Assault, especially at RR70+ where you don't have to choose between Shadow Sting and Shadowstep, is probably the #2 best solo roaming spec in the game, only behind DPS Shaman. Outstanding single target burst that requires no buildup on a relatively low cooldown, 3 strong DoTs (one of which doubles as a healing debuff), a knockdown, a disarm, strong kiting and chasing abilities, a gap closer (which you're better off using as a defensive cooldown or an escape from the enemy backlines, but still a gap closer nonetheless), and a very powerful anti-attrition button in Lileath's Forgiveness, you have all the tools at your disposal to kill anybody that you run across in an RvR lake - yes, even WEs and melee Squigs, you'll be ripping them in half. And, as long as you're packing Shadow Sting, you can confidently pursue premade SCs and city/RvR groups knowing that you are bringing something useful to the table besides just high ST damage. That being said, this spec really suffers in oRVR zergs, where you're not liable to be Guarded over something like a Slayer or WL, and you don't have the benefit of stealth or other mDPS accoutrements (lockpicking, etc). Especially in things like fort and keep defenses, you will often find yourself either camping posterns or plinking away uselessly at whatever peaks its head through the main door, waiting for the enemy to push and hoping to drop your M4 before you die.

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Aethilmar
Posts: 223

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#43 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:39 pm

xcact wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:53 am
My alt is a SW, 40/61. Some personal observations and opinions up to this point:
...
Assault, especially at RR70+ where you don't have to choose between Shadow Sting and Shadowstep, is probably the #2 best solo roaming spec in the game, only behind DPS Shaman. Outstanding single target burst that requires no buildup on a relatively low cooldown, 3 strong DoTs (one of which doubles as a healing debuff), a knockdown, a disarm, strong kiting and chasing abilities, a gap closer (which you're better off using as a defensive cooldown or an escape from the enemy backlines, but still a gap closer nonetheless), and a very powerful anti-attrition button in Lileath's Forgiveness, you have all the tools at your disposal to kill anybody that you run across in an RvR lake - yes, even WEs and melee Squigs, you'll be ripping them in half. And, as long as you're packing Shadow Sting, you can confidently pursue premade SCs and city/RvR groups knowing that you are bringing something useful to the table besides just high ST damage. That being said, this spec really suffers in oRVR zergs, where you're not liable to be Guarded over something like a Slayer or WL, and you don't have the benefit of stealth or other mDPS accoutrements (lockpicking, etc). Especially in things like fort and keep defenses, you will often find yourself either camping posterns or plinking away uselessly at whatever peaks its head through the main door, waiting for the enemy to push and hoping to drop your M4 before you die.
First, let me say I'm glad you enjoy playing aSW. If you are having fun, that is good.

However, saying it is the "#2 best solo roaming spec" is a big stretch. Pretty much any other mdps at rr70 is going to be "better" (from getting the kills and survivability perspective) than an aSW. Further, a geared RR70 AM is also far "better" than your aSW for running around solo and not dying (although not up to DPS shammy levels) while still picking up random kills via dot-dot-dot.

Another way to look at it is this, when I'm playing on my Destro toons the only Order class I don't fear or get frustrated with is a SW. They are a free kill in almost all situations. And when you play one (yes I have my own rr54 one) they require so much extra work to get the kill compared to my other rr5x dps classes (melee or ranged). Can you do fun and interesting things on them? Yes. Do you have to work harder than any other class to do them? Also yes.

Honestly, the whole "hybrid mdps" experiment was interesting but a failure. They need to buff their ranged abilities to make them competent rdps and leave enough "utility" in the melee stance to make it worth switching to once in a while.

Arthem
Posts: 143

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#44 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:08 am

Its not the best solo class but not the worst. Its very good in small roaming groups as Skirmish spec.
<Obliteration> Arthem 84SW | Aryastarkk 80WL
<Exo> Dourn 81Sorc | Vesr 81Dok

dansari
Suspended
Posts: 2524

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#45 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:26 am

Arthem wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:08 am
Its not the best solo class but not the worst. Its very good in small roaming groups as Skirmish spec.
Ye worse solo classes are WEs in precursor who never stealth and Slayers who fight with their back to enemy spamming flurry.
<Salt Factory>

Feomatar
Suspended
Posts: 74

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#46 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:52 pm

asw is so strong that no one wants him in 6\6 or 24\24 or on wb... Even guild who recruit everyone doesnt want sw KEK. Literally one thing makes sw barelly viable is duble armor what makes him tanky vs 50% of dd's aaaand thats all, at everything else he is worse compare to everyone. Like numbers doesnt lie, this class is dead, useless compare to everyone else and underpowered.

agemennon675
Posts: 150

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#47 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:14 am

Arthem wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:08 am
Its not the best solo class but not the worst. Its very good in small roaming groups as Skirmish spec.
So which dps is worse ? Just curious

Arthem
Posts: 143

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#48 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:56 am

agemennon675 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:14 am
Arthem wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:08 am
Its not the best solo class but not the worst. Its very good in small roaming groups as Skirmish spec.
So which dps is worse ? Just curious
For solo dps? Worst I would say is slayer / choppa, magus / engy, could argue WL and range squig is worse at solo also.
<Obliteration> Arthem 84SW | Aryastarkk 80WL
<Exo> Dourn 81Sorc | Vesr 81Dok

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Feomatar
Suspended
Posts: 74

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#49 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:51 pm

Arthem wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:56 am
agemennon675 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:14 am
Arthem wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:08 am
Its not the best solo class but not the worst. Its very good in small roaming groups as Skirmish spec.
So which dps is worse ? Just curious
For solo dps? Worst I would say is slayer / choppa, magus / engy, could argue WL and range squig is worse at solo also.
And all of em are better ane spec of sw... Like lol, slayer with riposte and parry can 1v1 most melee EASY.

sogeou
Posts: 216

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#50 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:27 pm

Feomatar wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:51 pm
Arthem wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:56 am
agemennon675 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:14 am


So which dps is worse ? Just curious
For solo dps? Worst I would say is slayer / choppa, magus / engy, could argue WL and range squig is worse at solo also.
And all of em are better ane spec of sw... Like lol, slayer with riposte and parry can 1v1 most melee EASY.

This thread is full of misinformation / not accurate info. Numbers don't lie, DPS test don't lie. There are other things which a class can add to a group beside lots of DPS. mSW is good, very strong solo class, skirmisher is ok ( not great) Scout is weak and could use some buffs.

Melee classes for DPS test on order based on 10-20 second time stamp.

1. WL - easy hands down best DPS. Lacks heal debuff in best dps tree.
2. ASW -has the second highest melee DPS. Lacks tools that helps take out targets like a slayer has. But, has more DPS than a Slayer as it takes time to build rage. Show me a class that has hit for 2400 from one move NON cast time not in a war camp. Oh did I say how they have 70-80% parry?
3. Slayer- takes awhile to get up to full rage and needs a tank bot.
4. WH- Last. Class has gotten nerf'ed in fall when Devs lowered damage from torment and other possible moves which were tweaked. Damage is really low and takes awhile to build if you are running full BAL spec.

Tanks melee spec could be added, but the only one that would be higher than some of the melee would be SM.

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