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Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

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Arthem
Posts: 143

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#51 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:00 pm

Feomatar wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:51 pm
Arthem wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:56 am
agemennon675 wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:14 am


So which dps is worse ? Just curious
For solo dps? Worst I would say is slayer / choppa, magus / engy, could argue WL and range squig is worse at solo also.
And all of em are better ane spec of sw... Like lol, slayer with riposte and parry can 1v1 most melee EASY.
They can beat melee that way except for WE. A WH and DPS AM will be able to take down a wider range of targets solo.
<Obliteration> Arthem 84SW | Aryastarkk 80WL
<Exo> Dourn 81Sorc | Vesr 81Dok

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Arthem
Posts: 143

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#52 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:02 pm

sogeou wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:27 pm
Feomatar wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:51 pm
Arthem wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:56 am


For solo dps? Worst I would say is slayer / choppa, magus / engy, could argue WL and range squig is worse at solo also.
And all of em are better ane spec of sw... Like lol, slayer with riposte and parry can 1v1 most melee EASY.

This thread is full of misinformation / not accurate info. Numbers don't lie, DPS test don't lie. There are other things which a class can add to a group beside lots of DPS. mSW is good, very strong solo class, skirmisher is ok ( not great) Scout is weak and could use some buffs.

Melee classes for DPS test on order based on 10-20 second time stamp.

1. WL - easy hands down best DPS. Lacks heal debuff in best dps tree.
2. ASW -has the second highest melee DPS. Lacks tools that helps take out targets like a slayer has. But, has more DPS than a Slayer as it takes time to build rage. Show me a class that has hit for 2400 from one move NON cast time not in a war camp. Oh did I say how they have 70-80% parry?
3. Slayer- takes awhile to get up to full rage and needs a tank bot.
4. WH- Last. Class has gotten nerf'ed in fall when Devs lowered damage from torment and other possible moves which were tweaked. Damage is really low and takes awhile to build if you are running full BAL spec.

Tanks melee spec could be added, but the only one that would be higher than some of the melee would be SM.
Yeah its no secret that WL and ASW have single target burst as does SM. I think its well known.
<Obliteration> Arthem 84SW | Aryastarkk 80WL
<Exo> Dourn 81Sorc | Vesr 81Dok

sogeou
Posts: 193

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#53 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:32 pm

Arthem wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:02 pm
sogeou wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:27 pm
Feomatar wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:51 pm


And all of em are better ane spec of sw... Like lol, slayer with riposte and parry can 1v1 most melee EASY.

This thread is full of misinformation / not accurate info. Numbers don't lie, DPS test don't lie. There are other things which a class can add to a group beside lots of DPS. mSW is good, very strong solo class, skirmisher is ok ( not great) Scout is weak and could use some buffs.

Melee classes for DPS test on order based on 10-20 second time stamp.

1. WL - easy hands down best DPS. Lacks heal debuff in best dps tree.
2. ASW -has the second highest melee DPS. Lacks tools that helps take out targets like a slayer has. But, has more DPS than a Slayer as it takes time to build rage. Show me a class that has hit for 2400 from one move NON cast time not in a war camp. Oh did I say how they have 70-80% parry?
3. Slayer- takes awhile to get up to full rage and needs a tank bot.
4. WH- Last. Class has gotten nerf'ed in fall when Devs lowered damage from torment and other possible moves which were tweaked. Damage is really low and takes awhile to build if you are running full BAL spec.

Tanks melee spec could be added, but the only one that would be higher than some of the melee would be SM.
Yeah its no secret that WL and ASW have single target burst as does SM. I think its well known.
Feomatar does not seem to understand that. I see tons others as well on order talking about bad mSW's and damage. Problem is just most of the mSW are not great. Don't worry, I said how OP the mSH was since I made mine on release and it took people year and half to understand how good they are lol. Scout could use some love, but don't think that is going to happen soon. All they need to do if fix a few simple things and it would help that tree out.

duds
Posts: 2

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#54 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:11 pm

Youre changing the subject of the post. The point is not whos the best dps. Is that SW are weak and unecessary in most fights. They should take a deep look at the ranged spec, because the class is really fun, but the fun doesnt last long when you hope that no one will look at you at a fight because if they do, youre dead and toi can not even tickle the attacker.

sogeou
Posts: 193

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#55 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:18 pm

duds wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:11 pm
Youre changing the subject of the post. The point is not whos the best dps. Is that SW are weak and unecessary in most fights. They should take a deep look at the ranged spec, because the class is really fun, but the fun doesnt last long when you hope that no one will look at you at a fight because if they do, youre dead and toi can not even tickle the attacker.
How is that changing the subject? People are saying it is bad and has no DPS. You are saying they are weak and unnecessary in fights where melee is not bad at all. They do have a spot for melee and I pointed out how scout is lacking.

Problem is scout's long time to do moves and the stance needs to have a better buff in scout stance.

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TanithScout
Posts: 43

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#56 » Sun May 03, 2020 2:22 pm

SW is good sustained damage against most targets. Armour mitigation destroys the class. In general, you'll be able to capitalise on weakness that already exists; unguarded players/squishies, when the enemy is routed in large rvr more than other classes, but will offer little the rest of the time unless you have good game knowledge and situational awareness, as well as respectable rr (Full Conq+ I'd say to assist/'dps').

The only reason is can be respected is Ranged knockdown and ASW singletarget dps.
You can play RvR and 6v6 is comp supports it just fine. It's not as bad as people say IF you have a brain, however it isn't meta. If you don't have a brain and can't get a build to work don't play it. Shelf it and roll anything else. You'll inherently be more useful.

A large component of the 'SW SUX' arguement is that Order often lacks a strong meleeball because people are playing RDPS meaning said RDPS suck because there is no meleeball allowing them to do their job.

SW's are good, you can make the class work, but you'll need RR, a brain, and/or support. Like every class. Since SW's are overrepresented this shines a light on them; you can be a trash tier slayer or paper dps tank and it's fine because the class is good. SW is a weaker class in most situations and stronger in a few. So lots of bad players rolling lots of SW's is a recipe for disaster. As such, the class shouldnt be balanced around that. Im not saying it doesn't need love (Scout) but it's not as bad as people say.

If a semi competant dps tank can kill you by pressing W+1 you need to change classes. Either your knowledge of the class is not good enough, your situational awareness the same, or your just trolling Order and not helping. Don't be that SW and main something else.
Qonrad, the knave of Nagarythe, Ghost of the Garior.

Imperial, Myrmidia's Chosen, assumed command of General Aldo Dercius's crusade after the General was discovered to be grossly incompetent and had a penchant for the Lho sticks.

PieTreBlu
Posts: 17

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#57 » Sun May 03, 2020 3:22 pm

TanithScout wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 2:22 pm
SW is good sustained damage against most targets. Armour mitigation destroys the class.
Giving skirmish stance an armor pen bonus instead of crit would help with that. I think there was some suggestions about having tactics turn some skill damage into spirit but I'm not sure adding tactic bloat to make the class more viable would be good enough. Switching Fell the Weak with Festering Arrow while making FA unblockable would also help make FA feel good enough to invest 2 tactics into (No Quarter+Enchanted Arrows) while giving skirmish a more accesible finisher (a bit clunky because of the stance requirement, which *could* be relaxed by making it scout/skirmish). There are ton of ways you could buff the class really, it's more about where/how much and is it going to bring the class into some unwanted weird design direction (like the original fester bomb design was).
I wonder if the changes are already mostly done and they're just testing them privately to avoid releasing something broken.

Knowthyself
Posts: 82

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#58 » Sun May 03, 2020 4:16 pm

SW is the best MDPS in the game atm.
Come On
Newgit
Knowthyself

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Feomatar
Suspended
Posts: 74

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#59 » Sun May 03, 2020 5:57 pm

Knowthyself wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:16 pm
SW is the best MDPS in the game atm.
Ahahahm where is your special going out? ahahah you top tier comedian whoa!

PieTreBlu
Posts: 17

Re: Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

Post#60 » Sun May 03, 2020 6:36 pm

Feomatar wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 5:57 pm
Knowthyself wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:16 pm
SW is the best MDPS in the game atm.
Ahahahm where is your special going out? ahahah you top tier comedian whoa!
Even if it were true it's not relevant to the discussion; when people talk about SW being weak they mean their ranged masteries, nobody is asking for assault to get buffed. Though sometimes I wonder if SW should remain bad, Order is already ranged heavy, can't imagine if ranged SW were strong :lol:

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