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rSW- Centuries of Training.

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Ramlaen
Posts: 92

Re: rSW- Centuries of Training.

Post#11 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:40 pm

Zxul wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:14 pm
Ramlaen wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:57 pm
Zxul wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:55 pm
While checking tactics- I wonder why I never see any rSWs using it. In theory, while calculating numbers and especially when combined with Skirmish stance for aa on the move, it should add lot of dmg. Those hits might look small, but its spirit dmg and as proc it ignores toughness mitigation- over time, those tend to add fast.
The damage is very poor, maybe if it hit like Jagged Edge.
The thing is that Jagged Edge ticks once every 3 sec from what I remember, while Centuries of Training ticks more often- so while dmg per tick might look low, it adds up when you measure it over say 10 sec.

Same on my chosen with Backlash- it does like 80 dmg per tick after mitigation which doesn't looks like much, but since it ticks once every 2 sec over time it adds to a very decent extra dmg.
This is roughly 2/3 the damage output of Jagged Edge on something with a lot of mitigation.

Does Backlash's damage scale with your stats?

SW cannot debuff for Centuries of Training like your Chosen can for Backlash.
Ramlaen, Longhaul, Wolfnrock, Grashop

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Foofmonger
Posts: 520

Re: rSW- Centuries of Training.

Post#12 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:37 pm

Centuries of Training isn't a bad tactic by any means, it just gets overshadowed by other tactics on most elf classes. It's comparable to Jagged Edge if not better in many situations.

Zxul
Posts: 916

Re: rSW- Centuries of Training.

Post#13 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:33 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:52 pm
The mention of T1 use is a good reminder that not all tactics were intended for use throughout the entire game. A significant portion of them are filler used while leveling when you have a limited amount of tactics available at all.
Lot of tactics are filler, but often underappreciated tactics are lot more useful than what people realize since its is just assumed that they ain't good without testing/figuring builds around them.

Case in point my chosen, where absorb/Backlash are the very base of build, while I often read on forums and heard in game that both tactics, and especially Backlash, ain't good.
Ramlaen wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:40 pm
Zxul wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:14 pm
Ramlaen wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:57 pm


The damage is very poor, maybe if it hit like Jagged Edge.
The thing is that Jagged Edge ticks once every 3 sec from what I remember, while Centuries of Training ticks more often- so while dmg per tick might look low, it adds up when you measure it over say 10 sec.

Same on my chosen with Backlash- it does like 80 dmg per tick after mitigation which doesn't looks like much, but since it ticks once every 2 sec over time it adds to a very decent extra dmg.
This is roughly 2/3 the damage output of Jagged Edge on something with a lot of mitigation.

Does Backlash's damage scale with your stats?

SW cannot debuff for Centuries of Training like your Chosen can for Backlash.
Backlash doesn't scales with stats, which however means that it also isn't mitigated by toughness. Also, it doesn't requires to crit, which is advantage vs heavy anticrit toons.

And chosen resists debuff is overrated- on my chosen with a maxed magic tree, aura debuffs resists by 188 or 10% mitigation or so.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

Merdur
Posts: 5

Re: rSW- Centuries of Training.

Post#14 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:37 pm

What wargrimm said is true not everything was designed to be useful at max level with rr70 gearing.

anarchypark
Posts: 1646

Re: rSW- Centuries of Training.

Post#15 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:55 pm

Zxul wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:33 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:52 pm
The mention of T1 use is a good reminder that not all tactics were intended for use throughout the entire game. A significant portion of them are filler used while leveling when you have a limited amount of tactics available at all.
Lot of tactics are filler, but often underappreciated tactics are lot more useful than what people realize since its is just assumed that they ain't good without testing/figuring builds around them.

Case in point my chosen, where absorb/Backlash are the very base of build, while I often read on forums and heard in game that both tactics, and especially Backlash, ain't good.
Ramlaen wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:40 pm
Zxul wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:14 pm


The thing is that Jagged Edge ticks once every 3 sec from what I remember, while Centuries of Training ticks more often- so while dmg per tick might look low, it adds up when you measure it over say 10 sec.

Same on my chosen with Backlash- it does like 80 dmg per tick after mitigation which doesn't looks like much, but since it ticks once every 2 sec over time it adds to a very decent extra dmg.
This is roughly 2/3 the damage output of Jagged Edge on something with a lot of mitigation.

Does Backlash's damage scale with your stats?

SW cannot debuff for Centuries of Training like your Chosen can for Backlash.
Backlash doesn't scales with stats, which however means that it also isn't mitigated by toughness. Also, it doesn't requires to crit, which is advantage vs heavy anticrit toons.

And chosen resists debuff is overrated- on my chosen with a maxed magic tree, aura debuffs resists by 188 or 10% mitigation or so.

1 HoT negates your tactic.
it's solo 1:1 build i guess.
how many 1:1 you got for entire day?

I'm not against focusing special area and drag enemy into your field of experty.
but if chances were too small i won't say it's useful tactic.

same goes for centuries of training.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL5, KoBS5, BW4, WP8, WH4, IB5, EG4, RP4, SL5
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE7, Cs7, Mg7, Ze6, Mara6, BO4, SH4, Shm5, Chop3
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

Zxul
Posts: 916

Re: rSW- Centuries of Training.

Post#16 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:59 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:55 pm
Spoiler:
Zxul wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:33 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:52 pm
The mention of T1 use is a good reminder that not all tactics were intended for use throughout the entire game. A significant portion of them are filler used while leveling when you have a limited amount of tactics available at all.
Lot of tactics are filler, but often underappreciated tactics are lot more useful than what people realize since its is just assumed that they ain't good without testing/figuring builds around them.

Case in point my chosen, where absorb/Backlash are the very base of build, while I often read on forums and heard in game that both tactics, and especially Backlash, ain't good.
Ramlaen wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:40 pm


This is roughly 2/3 the damage output of Jagged Edge on something with a lot of mitigation.

Does Backlash's damage scale with your stats?

SW cannot debuff for Centuries of Training like your Chosen can for Backlash.
Backlash doesn't scales with stats, which however means that it also isn't mitigated by toughness. Also, it doesn't requires to crit, which is advantage vs heavy anticrit toons.

And chosen resists debuff is overrated- on my chosen with a maxed magic tree, aura debuffs resists by 188 or 10% mitigation or so.

1 HoT negates your tactic.
it's solo 1:1 build i guess.
how many 1:1 you got for entire day?

I'm not against focusing special area and drag enemy into your field of experty.
but if chances were too small i won't say it's useful tactic.

same goes for centuries of training.
Backlash works on all who hit the chosen- as in mass rvr situations, it runs in the same time on lot and lot of engies/bws who are happily spamming aoe. The tactic is part of chosen thorns build, which is very much isn't 1v1 only.

As for CoT and aoe, no idea how ICD on it works- whatever its on sw (=can run only on one target in same time), or per target (=in aoe can proc on several targets, but only once per 5 sec per target).
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

anarchypark
Posts: 1646

Re: rSW- Centuries of Training.

Post#17 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:45 pm

Zxul wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:59 pm


Backlash works on all who hit the chosen- as in mass rvr situations, it runs in the same time on lot and lot of engies/bws who are happily spamming aoe. The tactic is part of chosen thorns build, which is very much isn't 1v1 only.

As for CoT and aoe, no idea how ICD on it works- whatever its on sw (=can run only on one target in same time), or per target (=in aoe can proc on several targets, but only once per 5 sec per target).

maybe you are only thinking sum of dmg like SC board.
check receiving end.
in a grp, in a wb, that dmg is about 1 HoT.
500k dmg 0 kill vs 100k dmg 10 kill. kinda thing.
just my 2c, can't see value outside of 1:1
sounds fun though, killing no heal pugs with thorn dmg.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL5, KoBS5, BW4, WP8, WH4, IB5, EG4, RP4, SL5
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE7, Cs7, Mg7, Ze6, Mara6, BO4, SH4, Shm5, Chop3
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

Zxul
Posts: 916

Re: rSW- Centuries of Training.

Post#18 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:24 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:45 pm
Zxul wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:59 pm


Backlash works on all who hit the chosen- as in mass rvr situations, it runs in the same time on lot and lot of engies/bws who are happily spamming aoe. The tactic is part of chosen thorns build, which is very much isn't 1v1 only.

As for CoT and aoe, no idea how ICD on it works- whatever its on sw (=can run only on one target in same time), or per target (=in aoe can proc on several targets, but only once per 5 sec per target).

maybe you are only thinking sum of dmg like SC board.
check receiving end.
in a grp, in a wb, that dmg is about 1 HoT.
500k dmg 0 kill vs 100k dmg 10 kill. kinda thing.
just my 2c, can't see value outside of 1:1
sounds fun though, killing no heal pugs with thorn dmg.
Its all about adding to aoe pressure. That 1 hot nullified doesn't looks like much, but with all the aoe going in rvr you can easily nullify it on 20 aoe spam happy order. Which by itself again isn't much, but in the same time they are hit by several other aoe, and in the end there is only so much aoe heals healers can output.

In addition you don't use only it, you also use magic reflect aura (like 200 dmg back each time bw hits any of your party with aoe, 2 sec ICD per target), potentially also Bane Shield with tactic- for snb line specced chosen, like 150 dmg back on being hit with 2 sec ICD from each party member, duration 17 sec with tactic cd 30 sec. Then you could also add invader, 100 dmg back each time you block something. And there are potentially more thorns sources, pot vs physical dmg, bb/be shield with 3% I think thorns proc, ets.

In the end it all adds up, especially when combined with 25% aoe heal debuff aura.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

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Zxul
Posts: 916

Re: rSW- Centuries of Training.

Post#19 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:36 pm

One reason why SoT is underrated tactic:

Image
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

ceramicartist
Posts: 18

Re: rSW- Centuries of Training.

Post#20 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:04 am

Zxul wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:36 pm
One reason why SoT is underrated tactic:
Spoiler:
Image
If you play a SW in T4 you'll know that SoT has no place in your tactic slots. Anything you remove will come at a heavy cost, and you will not like the results.

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