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[WL] Pet reliability

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Bucinator
Posts: 12

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#11 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:36 pm

Sundowner wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:21 pm
Bucinator wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:18 pm
I was thinking about something else. Since white lion's pet is unreliable (pathing, damage, range, movement), perhaps change the loner tactic. Instead of getting a damage boost without pet and loosing abilities, how about just getting all abilities as if a pet was active, but reducing your overall damage. Something like:
You and your war lion become one. All abilities that require a lion will act as if one is present, but your overall damage is reduced by X%.
This reduces your overall damage, but boost your reliability, you have all your toolkit but with reduced damage. Do you think this is something the WL players will be interested in?
without pet u loose 50%crit bonus already, reducing damage will further reduce wl's viability as dps
The idea is that the game will act as if a pet is present, so all skills that require a pet will function, but your overall damage will be lowered. For example:
  • Without new loner tactic
You have 50% crit bonus.
You hit target X for 1000 dmg (crit),
Your pet hits target X for 400 dmg (crit)
  • With new loner tactic
You have 50% crit bonus.
You hit target X for 800 dmg (crit)
You don't have a pet, so no second hit.

By checking the numbers above, I can conclude my idea is in the wrong direction. You lose plenty of damage from missing a pet, so another % dmg reduction would just simply hurts. This is a tricky topic, as self-reliance (without pet), skills (that require pet), and damage are pretty intertwined. Removing one (pet) would cause the other 2 to be in a miserable state.

Edit: I've given plenty of thought to that one. There are 2 directions, which can make a WL more self-reliant and consistent in damage numbers.
  • Loner: Reduce pet damage by 95% and reduce pet incoming dmg by 95%, while increasing your damage by 25%
  • Loner: Removes pet, increasing your damage by 25%, fetch and throat bite doesn't require pet.
Last edited by Bucinator on Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Twohandernoob
Posts: 177

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#12 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:47 pm

This is an intended roleplaying element where your pet cat wonders off on its own.

They should add a tactic 'Here kitty kitty' that reduces the chances of your cat wandering off to mark its territory by 75%

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hammerhead
Posts: 308

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#13 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:12 pm

Loner tactick is for the AoE/dot tree.

Maybe something like this:

Stalker
You and your War Lion now causes 75% less hatred in hostile monsters. In addition, the pet's cd time is reduced by 10 seconds.

And I think it would be possible to give Leonine Frenzy a 25ft taunt around the main target, to boost his utility.

In ST tree can be something like this

Threatening Distraction
You and your pet are inseparable, the radius of Lions abilities is reduced to 40 feet, but your speed will increase by 5%(10%).

Don't take it very seriously just as food for thought.
(\|)o0(|/)

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Gurf
Posts: 484

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#14 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:45 pm

Twohandernoob wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:47 pm
This is an intended roleplaying element where your pet cat wonders off on its own.

They should add a tactic 'Here kitty kitty' that reduces the chances of your cat wandering off to mark its territory by 75%
:lol: :lol: :lol:

In all seriousness I have a WL and the things I hate most are that you have to slot speed tactic to make fetch half work and have to slot a tactic for Lion to receive 25% heals, both should be built into the WL as core to try make the Lion aspect half viable in rvr, rather than the only option being Spin to Win Loner.

User avatar
Bucinator
Posts: 12

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#15 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:44 am

hammerhead wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:12 pm
Loner tactick is for the AoE/dot tree.

Maybe something like this:

Stalker
You and your War Lion now causes 75% less hatred in hostile monsters. In addition, the pet's cd time is reduced by 10 seconds.

And I think it would be possible to give Leonine Frenzy a 25ft taunt around the main target, to boost his utility.

In ST tree can be something like this

Threatening Distraction
You and your pet are inseparable, the radius of Lions abilities is reduced to 40 feet, but your speed will increase by 5%(10%).

Don't take it very seriously just as food for thought.
Indeed there is room for improvement on both Axeman and Guardian trees. I believe you're on the right track with merging both threat reduction tactics into one.
I would go further, and even suggest Furious Mending to be merged with Calming presence:
Trained to Kill restores X amount of health to you and your war lion, and anytime you are healed your pet receives 35% of the healing you received.
Not exact wording...

This will free up 2 tactic slots in both trees, which can be used for new abilities and better passives. We need a shuffle to restructure the war lion's survivability and white lion's self-reliance, which is something I would be really happy to see. Might as well make a suggestion for WL mastery optimization.

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knick
Posts: 68

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#16 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:09 am

Bucinator wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:36 pm
Spoiler:
Sundowner wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:21 pm
Bucinator wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:18 pm
I was thinking about something else. Since white lion's pet is unreliable (pathing, damage, range, movement), perhaps change the loner tactic. Instead of getting a damage boost without pet and loosing abilities, how about just getting all abilities as if a pet was active, but reducing your overall damage. Something like:

This reduces your overall damage, but boost your reliability, you have all your toolkit but with reduced damage. Do you think this is something the WL players will be interested in?
without pet u loose 50%crit bonus already, reducing damage will further reduce wl's viability as dps
The idea is that the game will act as if a pet is present, so all skills that require a pet will function, but your overall damage will be lowered. For example:
  • Without new loner tactic
You have 50% crit bonus.
You hit target X for 1000 dmg (crit),
Your pet hits target X for 400 dmg (crit)
  • With new loner tactic
You have 50% crit bonus.
You hit target X for 800 dmg (crit)
You don't have a pet, so no second hit.

By checking the numbers above, I can conclude my idea is in the wrong direction. You lose plenty of damage from missing a pet, so another % dmg reduction would just simply hurts. This is a tricky topic, as self-reliance (without pet), skills (that require pet), and damage are pretty intertwined. Removing one (pet) would cause the other 2 to be in a miserable state.

Edit: I've given plenty of thought to that one. There are 2 directions, which can make a WL more self-reliant and consistent in damage numbers.
  • Loner: Reduce pet damage by 95% and reduce pet incoming dmg by 95%, while increasing your damage by 25%
  • Loner: Removes pet, increasing your damage by 25%, fetch and throat bite doesn't require pet.


how should a fetch work when there is no pet around? When You thinking of something like mara pull then i have to say no, no sir i dont like it. Fetch mean pet pulls something to you. no pet no pull. Otherwise i can directly play a Marauder :?:

as i said befor the reason fetch often not works is because the lion cant use abilitys on the move. thats why targets often run out of ability range

hammerhead wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:12 pm
Spoiler:
Loner tactick is for the AoE/dot tree.

Maybe something like this:

Stalker
You and your War Lion now causes 75% less hatred in hostile monsters. In addition, the pet's cd time is reduced by 10 seconds.

And I think it would be possible to give Leonine Frenzy a 25ft taunt around the main target, to boost his utility.

In ST tree can be something like this

Threatening Distraction
You and your pet are inseparable, the radius of Lions abilities is reduced to 40 feet, but your speed will increase by 5%(10%).

Don't take it very seriously just as food for thought.


10 sec cooldown reduce would mean that the lion can spam attacks like "fang and claw". most pet abilitys have a 5 or 10 sec cooldown. in combination with Leonine Frenzy total overpowerd.
Why does Leonine Frenzy need a taunt? We have already one who works for you and your lion?
Most lion abilitys have 5 feet range ? Or do you mean fetch? In this case a i would say no. trade 20 feet for 5% is a bad deal. Dont know why i should trade of fetch range for a bit more dmg while the most of the time is the problem to get in range to make the damage.



the reason for splitting threat tactics is good and needed. It depends on the player if he want to tank the dmg or let the lion play as "tank" and take the dmg. If you merge both together you annihilate the possibility for lions to make some solo pve. With threatening distraction and Calming presence + lions roar you pet can take a good amound of dmg.
Last edited by knick on Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[Kraehenfeld] Knick Wl RR80+

User avatar
Bucinator
Posts: 12

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#17 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:54 pm

the reason for splitting threat tactics is good and needed. It depends on the player if he want to tank the dmg or let the lion play as "tank" and take the dmg. If you merge both together you annihilate the possibility for lions to make some solo pve. With threatening distraction and Calming presence + lions roar you pet can take a good amound of dmg.
I understand its usability, I do not understand the need for that to be in tactics. It can be part of "Trained to threaten" and still have the same effect. Plus if you want your pet to tank, you have to scale its toughness, which makes this reasonable suggestion.

And when it comes to fetch, I would also like the WL to do it via pet, what I would like to avoid is the errors caused due to range and lion speed.

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Grunbag
Project Team
Posts: 1881

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#18 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:56 pm

Issue: Pet often disappears without any reason.
How I track it: I've added Revenge tactic and buffhead so I can track if the lion is killed or it simply vanishes. Yesterday, my lion vanished 5 times in the span of 5 minutes, without me being in combat


It would be a good start to actually list how and when this happen
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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Bucinator
Posts: 12

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#19 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:05 pm

Grunbag wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:56 pm
Issue: Pet often disappears without any reason.
How I track it: I've added Revenge tactic and buffhead so I can track if the lion is killed or it simply vanishes. Yesterday, my lion vanished 5 times in the span of 5 minutes, without me being in combat


It would be a good start to actually list how and when this happen
oRVR territory, out of combat while dismounted in shadowlands. I was not crossing zones, neither entering or exiting keeps. Just walking.

User avatar
Grunbag
Project Team
Posts: 1881

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#20 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:08 pm

Could you reproduce ? Cause I couldn’t in shadow land
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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