[AM] What is the role/playstyle of an AM?

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Yshra
Posts: 8

Re: [AM] What is the role/playstyle of an AM?

Post#11 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:36 pm

AM has 1 heal tree, 1 dps tree and 1 debuff tree.
So it's not a healer, he can be a healer. That's different.

Huge problem is his survivability, very weak, if we are focused just by 2 dps, you die.
I dont remember it was like that on live. I remembered AM was much stronger. Dont know why exactly.
In city, when for instance there are 2 WE, it's horrible. I am focused, and cant survive even with a guard.
He can be very good if he's not focused, otherwise, he is useless in city and big fight.

When I play heal spec, it lacks intel stat or %anti disruption to use other trees. I think it's a huge problem.
Because every point spent in other trees cant be useful as all debuff/damage are half of time disrupted.
When I spec heal, I can just use one tree. It's absurd. Maybe I have not enough stuff, but I think it's a problem.

With that in mind, AM dps is more coherent, u can use 2 trees on same stat (intel) so for me dps AM is the way to play it.

I love him as healer but he lack of %anti disruption on heal stuff, survivability and group utility.

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Cimba
Posts: 344

Re: [AM] What is the role/playstyle of an AM?

Post#12 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:13 pm

leafaele wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:19 pm
The way I play is to not care as much about my group as I would on my WP or RP but instead focus on the warband as a whole, a more of raid healer. EoV, funnel essence and infusion works well for this kind of role, since it can deliver a lot of aoe healing or single target healing when needed. Which means you probably will suffer in the overall healing but you will deliver a lot of healing when it matters. A little akin to WH/WE damage compared to big AoE damage dealers where they get lots of deathblows but 'little' overall damage. A secondary part of this is a constant watch for positioning to be able to land good puddles as needed, which includes listening to raid leaders where they are focusing. Battle rezzes and AP drain are another thing I do a lot of. In most cities my AM probably account for 50% of the resses if not more.

So the question for today is: How do you play your archmage (and at what level of play)? What do you think the role(s) of an Archmage is? What should the role/playstyle of an AM be?

Do try to keep the answers well thought out and serious please.
Interesting that you care on your RP/WP less about the WB than on AM. If you generalize and extrapolate this behavior than you could say that AM can and do support everyone. However if AM need support they are left to die. This also means that your own group suffers compared to having you on RP/WP.

So your group is worse off having you, you die more because you play selfless while everyone else is selfish. Your only hope is that the warband leader recognizes and values what you do because its not showing up in any statistics.

leafaele
Posts: 13

Re: [AM] What is the role/playstyle of an AM?

Post#13 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:11 pm

Cimba wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:13 pm
Interesting that you care on your RP/WP less about the WB than on AM. If you generalize and extrapolate this behavior than you could say that AM can and do support everyone. However if AM need support they are left to die. This also means that your own group suffers compared to having you on RP/WP.

So your group is worse off having you, you die more because you play selfless while everyone else is selfish. Your only hope is that the warband leader recognizes and values what you do because its not showing up in any statistics.

Thats quite the take. Normally I do really respect you for your takes about and abilities with AM but thats kinda taking what I said and twisting it. Were did you get the dying part? I didnt mention anything about that. I'm not really sure where you were going with that extrapolation.
I like to think that the reason for me being constantly invited to warbands is that my WB leaders know what I deliver when I'm there. But I have a feeling that yours (Cimba) and my experience with AM differs from the majority of AM players, as in we play with regular warbands that are at least competive against all others. Most dont have that and I think that's really when AM suffers the most, sinces theres no support for the AM. So that also heavily influences peoples views about them and what they do in a warband.
Yes, there are a lot of statistics a playstyle like this dont show up in, mostly everything the game shows you in fact, and the latest city rework makes sure contribution is always low when playing like this instead of a "normal" healing style. Luckily I dont need gear anymore, so at least the bags go to people that actually needs them :)

While I have you Cimba could you please elaborate on your own views and thoughts about the playstyle of an AM. As in how do you play it? And how do you want it to play after a (perhaps someday) rework?

Cimba
Posts: 344

Re: [AM] What is the role/playstyle of an AM?

Post#14 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:50 pm

leafaele wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:11 pm
Thats quite the take. Normally I do really respect you for your takes about and abilities with AM but thats kinda taking what I said and twisting it. Were did you get the dying part? I didnt mention anything about that. I'm not really sure where you were going with that extrapolation.
I like to think that the reason for me being constantly invited to warbands is that my WB leaders know what I deliver when I'm there. But I have a feeling that yours (Cimba) and my experience with AM differs from the majority of AM players, as in we play with regular warbands that are at least competive against all others. Most dont have that and I think that's really when AM suffers the most, sinces theres no support for the AM. So that also heavily influences peoples views about them and what they do in a warband.
Yes, there are a lot of statistics a playstyle like this dont show up in, mostly everything the game shows you in fact, and the latest city rework makes sure contribution is always low when playing like this instead of a "normal" healing style. Luckily I dont need gear anymore, so at least the bags go to people that actually needs them :)

While I have you Cimba could you please elaborate on your own views and thoughts about the playstyle of an AM. As in how do you play it? And how do you want it to play after a (perhaps someday) rework?
Sorry about that, I meant to provoke to some degree but I may have overshot the target a bit. I think you highlighted an important point but didnt mention the implications: The amount of support different healers classes can supply out of group differs vastly.

This means that while an AM might be able to save a WP/RP in a different party the reverse is not true to the same extent. If a RP survives because an AM burns all his cooldowns its due to its "tankiness". If an AM dies because they dont have the same level of support its due to its squishyness.

I would say I play similarly to what you described, much more focused on the overall warband health. Slowing down melee trains. I do rez but probably not more than other healers. No instant rez. Ever. AP drain almost exclusively as a defensive measure melee trains.
But as you said, I have the luxury of not needing to prove anything. The people I play with know what I can and cant do on my healers. I dont think you can play this way if you still have to secure your spot in an organized warband. Your stats look too bad and your impact is too subtle. E.g. you saving someone is attributed to them being so tanky. And you dont get bags...

I dont really have a vision for warband level of play since I dont enjoy that content all that much.

leafaele
Posts: 13

Re: [AM] What is the role/playstyle of an AM?

Post#15 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:28 pm

Cimba wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:50 pm
Sorry about that, I meant to provoke to some degree but I may have overshot the target a bit. I think you highlighted an important point but didnt mention the implications: The amount of support different healers classes can supply out of group differs vastly.

This means that while an AM might be able to save a WP/RP in a different party the reverse is not true to the same extent. If a RP survives because an AM burns all his cooldowns its due to its "tankiness". If an AM dies because they dont have the same level of support its due to its squishyness.
Arh yes. Thats a fair and good point. I've experience quite a lot of that as well.

Interesting about the instant res, I usually always find myself missing it when I dont have it slotted but I agree you can do without it and probably do quite a bit more healing, or something else, instead. (although again. Some leaders / warbands specifically ask for it. At least that were my experience earlier on).

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Ugle
Posts: 578

Re: [AM] What is the role/playstyle of an AM?

Post#16 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:15 pm

Instares was worth it when it adhered immunities, not anymore
Ugle - SW | Amoebas - AM | Amoeba - SM | Korsbror - WP
Gief - SH | Sidathex - WE | Pnzr - BO | Uglegutt - SQH

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 14

Re: [AM] What is the role/playstyle of an AM?

Post#17 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:31 am

Yeah, insta res is just to get an invite.. don't actually run it ;)
I've not seen anybody ask for it in ages.. maybe it's just assumed, but in my mind it would need to be 4-5 star, premade v premade highly 2-2-2 organized and filled with 7 WP/RP+1AM before that happens.

When you play into mechanic half of the time you'll have reduced cast time.. then the other half is split by needing to heal/position/kite instead of res/stun and even then look at low vs high priority dead (e.g. you'd want to insta res your top healer, but if your lowest dps died not so much).
I would not start a city with it, but might switch into it if the fights are very close and in an organized group (where I'm dedicated resser).
Cimba wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:50 pm
AP drain almost exclusively as a defensive measure melee trains.
Are you running Transfer Magic? I've been thinking 10ap/sec is not worth it (maybe unless coordinated with other drains) since they would have too high ap regen for it to do anything, I thought it was mostly to pump your own ap, instead of Resto burst so you are not reliant on crit and have 1-10x more regen on demand.
SM - Arhalum - R70
AM - Shaheena - R70

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Sinisterror
Posts: 227

Re: [AM] What is the role/playstyle of an AM?

Post#18 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:26 am

Archmage needs to be able to spec for both Funnel Essence and eov at the same time withoout needing rr70 or +2 sove gear. Switch eov and law of gold places. Make magickal infusion core and put SW's swift strikes to replace it. Also make it heal your grp like 500 per hit and snare 20 % so you can get away from 2 we while healin urself and grp a litttle bit. Also make isha's encrouragement work with your whole grp. Class fixed! Magickal infusion should also work on your whole grp and make it that your grp will take 10 % less dmg AND it would actually prevent death if they drop after 30 % health and morale drop happens and they die, it should prevent that death and heal em back to 30 %. Class really fixed!
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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Cimba
Posts: 344

Re: [AM] What is the role/playstyle of an AM?

Post#19 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:29 am

leafaele wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:28 pm
Arh yes. Thats a fair and good point. I've experience quite a lot of that as well.

Interesting about the instant res, I usually always find myself missing it when I dont have it slotted but I agree you can do without it and probably do quite a bit more healing, or something else, instead. (although again. Some leaders / warbands specifically ask for it. At least that were my experience earlier on).
I think Panodil has the right of it: Top tier WBs expect minimal losses and properly enable their AM/Shamans with cd decreaser. If you got that you can be an absolute beast in the healing department and instant rez would be a waste.

What usually followed, when i was asked to run instant rez, was a warband that died at lot and thought one AM with instant rez would fix their miserable play.
BluIzLucky wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:31 am
Are you running Transfer Magic? I've been thinking 10ap/sec is not worth it (maybe unless coordinated with other drains) since they would have too high ap regen for it to do anything, I thought it was mostly to pump your own ap, instead of Resto burst so you are not reliant on crit and have 1-10x more regen on demand.
I usually dont have AP problems when I am in a proper group so there wasnt really an incentive for me to test Transfer Magic. If you run it you also need proper target selection because on shield tanks there is a non-zero chance that it will get blocked/disrupted. Tbh, I usally dont want to deal with that. I got other stuff on my plate :)

Sever1n
Posts: 35

Re: [AM] What is the role/playstyle of an AM?

Post#20 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:50 am

Yeah magical infusion is a garbage skill. It look cool on paper but 25% of heal power+tic of heal is nothing. And you dont have skill points to grab it eov infuse and puddle is 3 thing u choose in eov spec. Same thing with cleancing fire in dd spek.
U cant take silence from its position coz it affect dps am.
Main pain in ass for me as healer is disrupts, u cant rely on half of your spells, range of EoV, sometimes 80 is just crap for heal spell and put u in risk position, your zero shielding 1k solo shield that dont even count your resistance is a joke, and zero use of passive coz u 99% spam heal and only thing that afected by passive is EoV. Beside puddle your def tool is gusting wind, but 75% you will se disrupt. Same with vaul debuff - disrupt didrupt. They need to find a way utillize passive in heal like adding that anti dissrupt stat for serenity, so we can use law of age, rain lord, wind gust. Maybe make those debuffs affected by serenity so they go stronger of have additional effects. They need to do something with shield, at his power atm he dont worth of using it in city, need rework magical infusion. And maybe replace some skills EoV on 13 bblock all flexibility of build. Heal am need a way to generate force points to buff his heals, then it will work, but this way must be wort time of using this mechanics, not dps dits with 0 dmg into disrupts. Most problem skills for am is magick infus, cleancing fire. Maybe i on cocaine now but they can, put eov into 9 move law of gold into 3, out cronos into 3 of dd spec, and reworc infus into buffed mass version of it ant put it into 13 vauls. Puddle and esence go to 3 +9, and we have cleancing fire that must be wort 13 isha. Dunnno maybe mass shield+cleance. And add antidisrupt to passive+make someting with force generation like put it on rain lord and law of age. But to make ths changes is will blow mind of administration, players, squigs, and servers will colapse from owerflow of wine.

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