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[SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage
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Szeff
Posts: 16

Re: [SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Post#11 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:13 pm

Fenris78 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:19 am
detrap wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:45 am I've used high mitigation/avoidance builds for 2H SM across all aspects of the game. In rvr you are the hardest-to-be-killed tank on order. In city/scenarios you the best order tank for handling guard damage. Yes you lose damage and utility, but you'll be the best order tank at driving and stabilising the front lines in orvr and healers will love you.

Don't think a Knight or IB can push upwards of 90% parry/disrupt and 70% dodge, on demand with one ability like the SM can.
I concur to your statement, maybe except the damage part : my 2H SM is defensively specced and is consistently one of the last frontliners to die, while getting same or better protection score AND vastly superior damage than other tanks (IBs, SnB SMs and KotBSs), thanks to his group skills (Protection of Hoeth every 5s with WW, Stat stealing with Potent enchantment trigger, on top of usual tank skills) and spirit damage.

Hitting targets with barely mitigated damage (Spirit debuff + Toughness stealing) is very strong even it's by 150-300 hits at a time ; AoE damage (Wrath of Hoeth, Potent enchantment proc, Gusting winds and now WW) are providing a constant flow of damage wich will keep the pressure, where other tanks simply cant do that with such extend, not to mention they hit on armor and cant AoE debuff enemy mitigation.

So yes, since the 2H SM cannot really go full offensive (lacking Melee Crit and some Strength) without insta-melt he will not be the best finisher or ST dps one, but the constant AoE flow and group buffs is actually doing great for support : the stat stealing is also nice and mostly useful anytime (saving the Ballistic stat wich is less useful to steal from Destru), providing same or better buffs than a KotBS aura, and AoE stealing 114 initiative is actually very strong.

One of the only thing I can find "not too great" is the spirit debuff not very useful for allies (only the AM really benefits from it, and we generally want him to heal instead of dps). Otherwise it's an excellent tank both damage and protection-wise, as soon you can handle the mechanic and the buffs.
Any chance that you 2h SMs doing amazing things could share your builds? I would love to experiment with what is giving you so much success.

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Hazak
Posts: 11

Re: [SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Post#12 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:51 pm

LeChef - RR83+ SM
Heat - RR80+ BW

sunshinefuntime
Posts: 29
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Re: [SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Post#13 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:02 am

Karl wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:57 pm
Fenris78 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:03 pm few aoe but Potent Enchantment are doing wonders with Wrath of Hoeth + Nature's blade ; nearly unmitigated DoT (ignoring toughness) for everyone in 30ft, constantly proccing.

Not too bad especially when the first tick of PE triggers instantly with your hits, meaning it's basically an add damage of ~160 spirit that will proc in 30ft aoe.

Anyway I disagree about the SM being few utility : 750 Group absorb every 10s (5s with WW) is very good, especially when someone is under Word of Pain (bye bye critical damage), the cast time increaser is bane of shams/zealots, and the 20% damage reduction is a great tool versus any hard-hitting dps threatening your backline.
Not to mention the ultimate lord-killer skill Blurring Shock, but it's less relevant in PvP.

About survivability it's quite good so far with 2H build : the +25% parry will constantly help vs melee and guard damage (ableit far too short of a buff, need to be at least 10s), and Wall of Darting Steel is the ultimate protection since it also work against guard dmg AND dodge/disrupt from behind (wich Hold The Line cannot do).

Also you basically have the best M1 for a tank : Wings of Heavens ; equipe some +morale stuff and go catch the backline to disrupt healers in the back ; intimidating strike, dazzling strike and ether dance are bringing them a hard life, coupled with enchant remove they cannot just detaunt and ignore you.

With defensive renown (max disrupt/parry, 3 FS) and end gear you can reach 550 toughness (with tactic), 5k2 armor (with 2-3 talis+pot), about 800 str, 300 init, and +17% base parry (around 35-38% accounting renown) with Great Weapon mastery tactic (mandatory for 2H).

It needs to pass on the crit chances entirely (but even with the tactic it's hard to go high AND be resilient, you cant have both or two worlds), but with this kind of build you can be a serious threat to enemy wb AND win most duels if needed.

And you can catch fleeing enemies 65ft away, 60% aoe snare + punt will secure many kills to your teammates. This alone is what makes the SM a particularly fun tank to play.
What gear and rr are you in to get those stats?
My SM has similar stats (700 str) using a mix of ruin and redeye for armor bonus stacking. he is rr49.

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Fenris78
Posts: 787

Re: [SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Post#14 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:06 pm

Karl wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:57 pm What gear and rr are you in to get those stats?
Szeff wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:13 pm Any chance that you 2h SMs doing amazing things could share your builds? I would love to experiment with what is giving you so much success.
Here is my build :

My masteries :
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,2890,2885

My renown :
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;4;3;3;0;0

My stuff so far :
- Crimsonwind,
- 3 Sentinel (ring +6% parry + gloves + Body),
- 3 Bloodlord (Helm + Belt + Shoulders)
- 2 Warlord (Boots + cloak)
- 2 Genesis warrior (aspect + remnant)
- Harbinger Lionmark (purple jewel for moral, str and spirit resist)
- Bloodmoon Jewel (for overall stats)
Talismans : 4 armor, 2 wounds, 2 Strength.

My planned final stuff :
- Crimsonwind,
- 2 Sentinel (ring +6% parry + gloves),
- 2 Bloodlord (Helm + Belt)
- 2 Warlord (Boots + cloak)
- 3 Sov off (Shoulders, body, Jewel)
- Harbinger Lionmark
- Bloodmoon Jewel
Talismans : 3 armor, 3 wounds, 2 spirit resist.

I plan on replacing the two last rings for Hunter's Vale ones if they are better (wait and see).

But at the moment I'm very satisfied of this build, found a very good balance between tankiness, damage and group utility.
My protection score is usually in the top 3, and consistently doing double/triple+ damage over other tanks, thanks to AoE effects and general spirit damage on debuffed resists.

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Karl
Posts: 329

Re: [SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Post#15 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:09 pm

Thx for sharing mate!
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Laoch74
Posts: 7

Re: [SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Post#16 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:22 pm

After seeing some balance changes to the game,I'm thinking of returning. This build is what I've been looking for in a SM 2H tank build. Is there some advice on rotations.

Strakar
Posts: 144

Re: [SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Post#17 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:37 am

I ran Fenris build for a while skipping ED for WW and found the damage lackluster. I mean, okish but a lot of it is fluff aoe damage not helping land kills. Didn't feel like enough improvement over snb to lose so many good defensive tools in vaul. I'd like to try again though since my gear is better now.

I've seen some demand for 2h SM in ST city groups, which is nice and maybe the only WB environment where 2h is wanted over snb. Not having the punt hurts in small groups. I'd love to trade some of the protection from POH and RT to open up ST punt and longer EF duration.

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Martok
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Re: [SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Post#18 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:39 am

Catalyst wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:11 am[SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Yes.
Blame It On My ADD Baby...

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mynban
Posts: 204

Re: [SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Post#19 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:24 am

Strakar wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:37 am I ran Fenris build for a while skipping ED for WW and found the damage lackluster. I mean, okish but a lot of it is fluff aoe damage not helping land kills. Didn't feel like enough improvement over snb to lose so many good defensive tools in vaul. I'd like to try again though since my gear is better now.

I've seen some demand for 2h SM in ST city groups, which is nice and maybe the only WB environment where 2h is wanted over snb. Not having the punt hurts in small groups. I'd love to trade some of the protection from POH and RT to open up ST punt and longer EF duration.
I doubt 2H SM's role in wb was ever about damage or securing kills. But rather AoE nature's blade procs.

But that's just my take of it.

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Aethilmar
Posts: 636

Re: [SM] Any chance being viable in RvR/Sieges with 2H?

Post#20 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:47 pm

2H SM brings nothing to warband play that can't be provided (and better) by a Shieldmaster except about 30 points of stat steal. The "damage" is not significant.

And it is questionable if it brings anything to 6 man.

When they made Shieldmaster viable they destroyed Swordmaster. Sorry to be a downer but the SM niche of DPS tank has been a myth for a while now.

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