Recent Topics

Ads

[SW] whats the point of SW?

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage
Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use
Your topic MUST start with your class name between hooks (IE : [Shaman] blablabla)
User avatar
don775
Posts: 81

Re: [SW] whats the point of SW?

Post#41 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:02 am

SW can do much better than all other range classes if you kite well, flanking, or assisting with disables.

Ads
Thorondir
Posts: 71

Re: [SW] whats the point of SW?

Post#42 » Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:40 pm

Arthem wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:00 am
As you said Glass Arrows totally cuts off sustained damage so you have to slowly methodically burst. Its a big yikes that you're spending AP twice to use an ability while the dmg proc has an internal cooldown. This was one of the many nerfs SW got when they 'buffed' them. Other nerfs include RKD to Scout tree, lowering BHA dmg on 1x, Flanking shot dmg reduction, shadow nerfs on FA (no patch notes but doing 25% less dmg randomly). The only buff was FTW spirit dmg with VoN.
Wow, the 1 stack of BHA felt like it was weaker than I remembered, but I had no reference point to be certain. That is a straight up bad trade off for 3 stacks.

Festering arrow definitely has been neutered. I noticed the weapon dps no longer is calculated in the ability damage formula. The straight up cut to base ability damage seems to align with what I have seen.

Arthem wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:00 am
Yeah you don't really use ES at all. You use the No Respite for skirmisher AoE ironically that's the old ES. AoE SW is ideal for running with the blob and having the tank guard them who usually swaps to heals so when they do that you can remove yourself from the blob briefly and just do a bit less dmg. Unfortunately its pretty much fluff dmg but with Pierce defenses and warlord armor debuff proc you're at least being useful. Sadly we can't use FM for dmg because we need it to break free sometimes.
Yeah, you are exactly right, they rolled back the clock on the SW to the launch split arrows spec. At least then you could pump out damage with the old ES tactic that gave a 25% damage bonus and pop an M2 for spiking targets down.

I was using ES as an example how there have been all these piecemeal changes because someone didn't like that SW could do this or that. It leaves the class in a weird place where you have things like all these cast time reduction abilities that make no sense. Like someone else previously said, the class is a mess and no real sense of the big picture of how things work together.

Arthem wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:00 am
One way to play the old SW style in a really fun way is to just play Squig Herder. They've been perfectly balanced in the skirmisher style while SW is like a confused Engy.
Yeah, I can imagine the SH players are loving that on the move RKD. I always did.

Maybe after I've beaten myself stupid trying to make a ranged single target spec work I will give my SH a new lease on life.

Thorondir
Posts: 71

Re: [SW] whats the point of SW?

Post#43 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:25 am

Okay, I think I finally figured out the new BHA:

Image

User avatar
Kaeldrick
Posts: 100

Re: [SW] whats the point of SW?

Post#44 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:55 am

Thorondir wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:40 pm Festering arrow definitely has been neutered. I noticed the weapon dps no longer is calculated in the ability damage formula. The straight up cut to base ability damage seems to align with what I have seen.
Skill damage has never taken in account weapon damage. Weapon damage is the base value for auto attacks only, on any class.

Thorondir
Posts: 71

Re: [SW] whats the point of SW?

Post#45 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:52 pm

Kaeldrick wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:55 am
Thorondir wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:40 pm Festering arrow definitely has been neutered. I noticed the weapon dps no longer is calculated in the ability damage formula. The straight up cut to base ability damage seems to align with what I have seen.
Skill damage has never taken in account weapon damage. Weapon damage is the base value for auto attacks only, on any class.
I think you may be incorrect. Certainly on live, the damage formula incorporated weapon damage on physical dps classes ability damage calculation. There is an old post on here that still has the formulas that worked in my testing.

Anyhow, no need to believe me because it is demonstrably verifiable. Hop on a SW, take off all gear and tactics. Buy two lowbie bows with no BS stats so that the only difference is weapon DPS. Testing on a target dummy came up with an increase in base / non crit damage when using the higher DPS weapon on all abilities except for festering arrow and flame arrow.

Alucard2010
Posts: 91

Re: [SW] whats the point of SW?

Post#46 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:59 pm

How to play SW 101 -

1st - Don't log onto the toon until it's Order fort defense time.
2nd - It's fort defense time, log onto your SW and grab 7-8 of your other SW buddies
3rd - Get some healers and a few S&B Tanks into the WB
4th - AFK until lord room defense
5th - Go to 3rd floor w/ your squad and rain down 3xBHA on destro
6th - LOL and Profit
7th - Fort ends in a win, Log off SW
8th - Play a different toon while you wait for next fort defense

Wraithedge
Posts: 135

Re: [SW] whats the point of SW?

Post#47 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:19 pm

Just last night I was on my SW and bemoaning how inferior they were at range.

I have my rotation pretty tight now pumping out consistent numbers but it is all nothing really, its like its all pretend.

The mini zerg wanders back and forth outside the BO fending off the destro line. I get some kills because other people are beating on them and I happen to get the last hit. Then I square off on a magus just as she squares off on me.

There is just no contest. If I don’t turn tail and run to a healer I will be dead before she is 25% hurt.

Sorcs will just delete me at range. Assault is a death sentence. Scout is sooooo slllooowwww. So I live in skirmish trying to dodge in and out hitting people when they are not looking or busy with someone else because they will flatly murder me if they notice me.

Everyone knows that shamans can’t be killed at range but they can sure blow me up. Even squig hunters can trade until they get bored and then send their pet to do me in.

Sometimes I watch the Magus or the Sorc just farting around by themselves before the rest of my zerglings get there. I could open up on them, but that would just be inviting death because they would turn around and swat me like a fly.

I feel like SWs are just annoying RR canisters. All I can do is vaguely harass characters with real abilities. And when those abilities land on me, RIP.

If I can get into a group where everyone else is keeping the enemy busy and I have time to drop everything on someone then I can probably do tank level damage full of “absorb” or just watching them heal themselves right back up.

I can’t help but wish SWs could be even a little scary rather than just a part of a balanced destro diet.

Thorondir
Posts: 71

Re: [SW] whats the point of SW?

Post#48 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:29 pm

Wraithedge wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:19 pm Just last night I was on my SW and bemoaning how inferior they were at range.

I have my rotation pretty tight now pumping out consistent numbers but it is all nothing really, its like its all pretend.

The mini zerg wanders back and forth outside the BO fending off the destro line. I get some kills because other people are beating on them and I happen to get the last hit. Then I square off on a magus just as she squares off on me.

There is just no contest. If I don’t turn tail and run to a healer I will be dead before she is 25% hurt.

Sorcs will just delete me at range. Assault is a death sentence. Scout is sooooo slllooowwww. So I live in skirmish trying to dodge in and out hitting people when they are not looking or busy with someone else because they will flatly murder me if they notice me.

Everyone knows that shamans can’t be killed at range but they can sure blow me up. Even squig hunters can trade until they get bored and then send their pet to do me in.

Sometimes I watch the Magus or the Sorc just farting around by themselves before the rest of my zerglings get there. I could open up on them, but that would just be inviting death because they would turn around and swat me like a fly.

I feel like SWs are just annoying RR canisters. All I can do is vaguely harass characters with real abilities. And when those abilities land on me, RIP.

If I can get into a group where everyone else is keeping the enemy busy and I have time to drop everything on someone then I can probably do tank level damage full of “absorb” or just watching them heal themselves right back up.

I can’t help but wish SWs could be even a little scary rather than just a part of a balanced destro diet.
I feel your pain. Ranged ST damage is not in a great place on the SW right now.

Gear is probably a major factor for you too. The game and SW's in particular have always been highly gear dependent.

Scout still seems to offer the best potential for ranged burst damage. Skirm is consistent, but it just has no punch.

These days, unless you significantly out gear your opponent, I would expect that you would lose more often than not squaring up against destro RDPS in a head on DPS race.

That leaves you squarely as an assist DPS. Whether you are in Skirm or Scout, the primary job is keeping your heal debuff permanently on target and looking for opportune ranged knock downs. Scout works to add a bit of burst spike to secure a kill. Skirm will add some pressure damage on assisted targets. Neither works particularly well in the current iteration.

Historically, the SW always did have more of an assist role, but it did it much better. The loss of 100ft shadow sting and takedown is a huge blow that recreates one of the major problems from launch. Mobility in scout used to be better when Glass Arrow was an instant cast direct damage ability, Flame Arrow was a scout ability. You could pop off 3 instant casts, your two dots and takedown, all on the move. You also could be a hero every minute when you popped off your M2 that gave 100% more damage for 7s (removed on this sever) and most often secure a solo kill on a target. The class was essentially built around the M2, so if it feels like you are missing something when playing your SW, there it is.

Ads
Wraithedge
Posts: 135

Re: [SW] whats the point of SW?

Post#49 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:39 pm

Huh... well that all tracks perfectly. Top notch info and a thing or two to think about. Thanks much Thorondir, you really know your stuff.

User avatar
Arthem
Posts: 253

Re: [SW] whats the point of SW?

Post#50 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:48 am

Wraithedge wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:19 pm Just last night I was on my SW and bemoaning how inferior they were at range.

I have my rotation pretty tight now pumping out consistent numbers but it is all nothing really, its like its all pretend.
Yep, unfortunately no matter how good and tight your rotation is they gutted the class big time. Removing range tactic forcing us closer to fights and not supplementing with more mobility and survivability or even dmg. Not only did they not add better dmg and mobility for the range nerf but they reduced it further by removing Glass arrow, placing eye shot in Scout so you can't shoot and run.

Run and shoot skirmisher is only a thing on Squig, it doesn't exist on Order any more.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests