[WL] Fort Weapon

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vanbuinen77
Posts: 180

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#41 » Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:07 am

And that's not counting block/parry from overstacked Destro tanks and mdps, wich mean in practice proc will be even lower. /quote]




Procs arnt affected by avoidance.
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normanis
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Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#42 » Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:13 am

actually destro has similar , byt with nuance. its chosen healdebuff what works same way as wl axe. 100% uptime
p.s in wb if there is 2+ wl 1 of tham run armor debuff axe second run subjector or fort axe .
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Fenris78
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Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#43 » Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:25 am

vanbuinen77 wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:07 am
And that's not counting block/parry from overstacked Destro tanks and mdps, wich mean in practice proc will be even lower.
Procs arnt affected by avoidance.
You need to hit first to get a chance to proc, ergo if your hits got parried/blocked, you got less possible procs from weapon.

It doesnt require a math degree to do simple calculations (see my previous posts), where you could IN THEORY count this proc as a mass debuff, but when it comes to reality you would'nt, at best, debuff more than 1 or 2 people on each attack, provided you hit at least 15 people at a time without being blocked/parried by any (wich in fact is very unlikely 99% of the time).

And yet some over-zealous minds are deeply convinced this is uber OP to one side, while other side got in fact the best mass heal debuff of the game, as noticed multiple times previously (Chosen aura). And while getting access to this presumably cheesy proc on 3 dps classes.
Yet, nobody looks like running this weapon or bonus set Destru side, I wonder why... Maybe running a single Chosen into enemy lines is enough, who knows ? :roll:
Last edited by Fenris78 on Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 699

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#44 » Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:18 am

But Leonine Frenzy is a proc why should a proc crit? If LF proc would be made able to crit than every other proc like witchbrew should be able to crit also. And I definitely don't want that :D
I agree that pounce should be able to work mid-air.

My point is simply that these HD procs are in place to compensate for destro abilities to HD
[/quote]

Oh i forgot to mention that Witchbrew does corporeal dmg and has 2x higher base dmg than Leonine Frenzy which is physical dmg. So We can have 100% uptime on WB WITH 100% more dmg than on LF and LF has 30 sec CD. And again pet is crit mechanic for WL and if you use pet you use 50% Crit dmg tactic, these are good reasons to make LF do crit dmg again. And mid-air pounce;) Also because WL needs stupid flanking requirements on Primal Fury give WL their 10 second snare back as well.

RoR.builders - White Lion Now that im thinking about it, ofc RoR has Removed the possibility of this build as well... This was amazing, when you pet died you had 10 seconds of 75-100%(Primal fury) dmg boost <3 It would have been perfect if lion recast cd was 10s instead of 15s. Because WL/LF is gutted This build now would be amazing when aoe cap is 24 instead of 9 and pets dont get grp heals/buffs so they are unusable in RvR but this build would actually work now but ofc RoR had to take away possibilities how to play, its their thing=) Man i miss War Aor WL;(
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vanbuinen77
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Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#45 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:28 am

Fenris78 wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:25 am
vanbuinen77 wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:07 am
And that's not counting block/parry from overstacked Destro tanks and mdps, wich mean in practice proc will be even lower.
Procs arnt affected by avoidance.
You need to hit first to get a chance to proc, ergo if your hits got parried/blocked, you got less possible procs from weapon.

It doesnt require a math degree to do simple calculations (see my previous posts), where you could IN THEORY count this proc as a mass debuff, but when it comes to reality you would'nt, at best, debuff more than 1 or 2 people on each attack, provided you hit at least 15 people at a time without being blocked/parried by any (wich in fact is very unlikely 99% of the time).

And yet some over-zealous minds are deeply convinced this is uber OP to one side, while other side got in fact the best mass heal debuff of the game, as noticed multiple times previously (Chosen aura). And while getting access to this presumably cheesy proc on 3 dps classes.
Yet, nobody looks like running this weapon or bonus set Destru side, I wonder why... Maybe running a single Chosen into enemy lines is enough, who knows ? :roll:
You cant avoid a proc, even if the hit that caused a proc was block/parried.
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Fenris78
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Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#46 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:21 am

vanbuinen77 wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:28 am You cant avoid a proc, even if the hit that caused a proc was block/parried.
There will never be any proc if your hit is parried. And hopefully, otherwise WH and WE will be unkillable, especially WH with flowing accusation + Sanctified bullets ; you would have to just spam accusations and regen with every hit, dealing 450 spirit damage each time wich bypass toughness...

You realize the "unavoidable" nature of proc is only because there is only one avoidance test against the initial hit, right ?

I.E. if you got hit = ability damage + associated proc are hitting, if you avoid initial hit, there will absolutely be no proc triggering whatsoever. Otherwise every mdps with Jagged Edge, every BW with funnel essence, every choppa/slayer with their add damage (wich are also procs with 100% trigger chance) would be absolutely broken if they could proc 100-250 unavoidable damage no matter what.

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Ninjagon
Posts: 345

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#47 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:18 pm

That proc is way overrated. I don't use fort weapon at all.
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vanbuinen77
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Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#48 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:25 pm

Fenris78 wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:21 am
vanbuinen77 wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:28 am You cant avoid a proc, even if the hit that caused a proc was block/parried.
There will never be any proc if your hit is parried. And hopefully, otherwise WH and WE will be unkillable, especially WH with flowing accusation + Sanctified bullets ; you would have to just spam accusations and regen with every hit, dealing 450 spirit damage each time wich bypass toughness...

You realize the "unavoidable" nature of proc is only because there is only one avoidance test against the initial hit, right ?

I.E. if you got hit = ability damage + associated proc are hitting, if you avoid initial hit, there will absolutely be no proc triggering whatsoever. Otherwise every mdps with Jagged Edge, every BW with funnel essence, every choppa/slayer with their add damage (wich are also procs with 100% trigger chance) would be absolutely broken if they could proc 100-250 unavoidable damage no matter what.
Again the proc goes through even if the hit is avoided.

It is easy to see vs WE/WH.

I have both and their procs are unavoidable.
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Lisutaris
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Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#49 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:06 pm

About this procc thing....
Usually "ON HIT" or "Getting hit" only procs if you do outgoing dmg or get some points of dmg.
For example ... BB/BE influence Shields with "on being hit" procs, won't proc as long as you block/parry everything.
Everyone is able to try this themselves ..... (which is some sort of letdown for shields :( I dont want to get "hit" to be able to use the proc xD)

Ofc this can be different with class abilites ... who knows. As for item procs, it is usally like above.
If some1 got enough free time, duel, test it out .... and see if there are really 10% of auto attack swings = heal debuff proc.
If not, because of parry/block ... and it is only 2% -> you got your answer.

For answering the question of this here:
25 = 25% as alot of ppl already mentioned.
Usually such ablities dont only proc via autoattacks but also skills. (which is pretty good -> 10%)
Usually as long as the buff or debuff (in this case), is active, refreshing is not possible, most likely internal cooldown of the duration. As I am not playing order, or having this weapon -> I can't say for sure if the cooldown of the proc is depending on the target (already debuffed) or yourself (10s for new proc) and/or working on aoe dmg abilites (debuffing more than 1 target) . This is also easy to test via target dummies tho.
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Akalukz
Posts: 1377

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#50 » Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:59 pm

Lisutaris wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:06 pm About this procc thing....
Usually "ON HIT" or "Getting hit" only procs if you do outgoing dmg or get some points of dmg.
For example ... BB/BE influence Shields with "on being hit" procs, won't proc as long as you block/parry everything.
Everyone is able to try this themselves ..... (which is some sort of letdown for shields :( I dont want to get "hit" to be able to use the proc xD)

Ofc this can be different with class abilites ... who knows. As for item procs, it is usally like above.
If some1 got enough free time, duel, test it out .... and see if there are really 10% of auto attack swings = heal debuff proc.
If not, because of parry/block ... and it is only 2% -> you got your answer.

For answering the question of this here:
25 = 25% as alot of ppl already mentioned.
Usually such ablities dont only proc via autoattacks but also skills. (which is pretty good -> 10%)
Usually as long as the buff or debuff (in this case), is active, refreshing is not possible, most likely internal cooldown of the duration. As I am not playing order, or having this weapon -> I can't say for sure if the cooldown of the proc is depending on the target (already debuffed) or yourself (10s for new proc) and/or working on aoe dmg abilites (debuffing more than 1 target) . This is also easy to test via target dummies tho.
Good points, it definitely works on skills and aoe. It does not have a 10 sec icd for the damage dealer. Possibly on the target (but it is a 10 sec debuff)
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