[WL] Fort Weapon

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Lisutaris
Posts: 22

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#51 » Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:19 pm

Akalukz wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:59 pm
Lisutaris wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:06 pm About this procc thing....
Usually "ON HIT" or "Getting hit" only procs if you do outgoing dmg or get some points of dmg.
For example ... BB/BE influence Shields with "on being hit" procs, won't proc as long as you block/parry everything.
Everyone is able to try this themselves ..... (which is some sort of letdown for shields :( I dont want to get "hit" to be able to use the proc xD)

Ofc this can be different with class abilites ... who knows. As for item procs, it is usally like above.
If some1 got enough free time, duel, test it out .... and see if there are really 10% of auto attack swings = heal debuff proc.
If not, because of parry/block ... and it is only 2% -> you got your answer.

For answering the question of this here:
25 = 25% as alot of ppl already mentioned.
Usually such ablities dont only proc via autoattacks but also skills. (which is pretty good -> 10%)
Usually as long as the buff or debuff (in this case), is active, refreshing is not possible, most likely internal cooldown of the duration. As I am not playing order, or having this weapon -> I can't say for sure if the cooldown of the proc is depending on the target (already debuffed) or yourself (10s for new proc) and/or working on aoe dmg abilites (debuffing more than 1 target) . This is also easy to test via target dummies tho.
Good points, it definitely works on skills and aoe. It does not have a 10 sec icd for the damage dealer. Possibly on the target (but it is a 10 sec debuff)
Most likely on the target yes. Just my guess but I think it can only be reapplied after its full 10s duration. We would need some WL order hero to test it out ^^
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Joshwa70
Posts: 355

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#52 » Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:27 pm

Akalukz wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:42 pm I guess I was asking is what is the Destro equivalent of the AoE Incoming Heal Debuff Proc on a weapon like the WL has? Is there one?
Isn't there a chosen aura that just does it automaticly? Forgive me if I'm wrong.

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Akalukz
Posts: 1377

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#53 » Wed Dec 07, 2022 5:39 pm

Joshwa70 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:27 pm
Akalukz wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:42 pm I guess I was asking is what is the Destro equivalent of the AoE Incoming Heal Debuff Proc on a weapon like the WL has? Is there one?
Isn't there a chosen aura that just does it automaticly? Forgive me if I'm wrong.
yes and no, it does but only while in range and is a spec point requirement.
-= Agony =-

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Valfaros
Posts: 234

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#54 » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:11 pm

I don't know if people purposefully divert the argument or not but why are we talking about chosen aura vs this weapon. You may compare chosen aura vs kotb aura and see that one is better in small scale and when pushing into backline (since they stack with regular healdebuff) while the other is better in zerging as you can't aoe apply heal debuff anymore.

The question is quite simple. Is this proc out of relations to other procs of this weapon. Yes or no?

If I compare it to zealot you get a 5% chance to a 350 heal over 9s proc and a whopping 2% proc chance to deal 360 dmg when getting attacked. 360 dmg before mitigation and this dmg is halved if you had detaunted your target. (WTF?)

So yeah compare these effects to a 10% chance to give a 25% aoe applicable heal debuff and tell me these are fair distributions of procs. So the answer is relativly simple either nerv the **** out of this proc or buff the others accordingly. As a dps zealot I would obvoiusly further welcome a proc that is useable as both heal or dps or two separate weapons.

Joshwa70
Posts: 355

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#55 » Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:26 am

Valfaros wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:11 pm I don't know if people purposefully divert the argument or not but why are we talking about chosen aura vs this weapon. You may compare chosen aura vs kotb aura and see that one is better in small scale and when pushing into backline (since they stack with regular healdebuff) while the other is better in zerging as you can't aoe apply heal debuff anymore.

The question is quite simple. Is this proc out of relations to other procs of this weapon. Yes or no?

If I compare it to zealot you get a 5% chance to a 350 heal over 9s proc and a whopping 2% proc chance to deal 360 dmg when getting attacked. 360 dmg before mitigation and this dmg is halved if you had detaunted your target. (WTF?)

So yeah compare these effects to a 10% chance to give a 25% aoe applicable heal debuff and tell me these are fair distributions of procs. So the answer is relativly simple either nerv the **** out of this proc or buff the others accordingly. As a dps zealot I would obvoiusly further welcome a proc that is useable as both heal or dps or two separate weapons.
Wl is the only mdps class without a inc heal debuff. They gave us one.. and just like our kd and silence.. it requires some luck to use and isnt just appliable. I don't understand the problem here. You have auras that do the exact same thing 100 percent of the time just by standing there, and unless a WL is throwing axes at you it s not going to debuff anything outside of 30 feet either.

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Ramlaen
Posts: 200

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#56 » Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:13 pm

Destro already has a passive uncleanseable aoe 25% heal debuff...
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Hitzusen, Popori, Mecaster
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Sinisterror
Posts: 699

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#57 » Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:30 pm

Valfaros wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:11 pm I don't know if people purposefully divert the argument or not but why are we talking about chosen aura vs this weapon. You may compare chosen aura vs kotb aura and see that one is better in small scale and when pushing into backline (since they stack with regular healdebuff) while the other is better in zerging as you can't aoe apply heal debuff anymore.

The question is quite simple. Is this proc out of relations to other procs of this weapon. Yes or no?

If I compare it to zealot you get a 5% chance to a 350 heal over 9s proc and a whopping 2% proc chance to deal 360 dmg when getting attacked. 360 dmg before mitigation and this dmg is halved if you had detaunted your target. (WTF?)

So yeah compare these effects to a 10% chance to give a 25% aoe applicable heal debuff and tell me these are fair distributions of procs. So the answer is relativly simple either nerv the **** out of this proc or buff the others accordingly. As a dps zealot I would obvoiusly further welcome a proc that is useable as both heal or dps or two separate weapons.
Yes they are diverting on purpose. Order has WL/IB/WP/Slayer that has access to this 25 % Inc HD Wpn proc in Subjugator/Fort wpn. Destro has Choppa only, maybe give access to black orc using that same fort 2H Choppa has this proc? I know perfect quote to this.

"Zerging is really bad and the weak minded bandwagon as ezi bags hangarounds.
So instead of punishing the bag whoring or implementing other zerg/overpopulation punish measures what do you do?
You increase the AOE cap from 9 to 24 people.
Throw ALL abilities into an abyss of an unbalanced state.
Making keep fights a hell.
Literally encouraging people to stack more dps ergo more people to win a fight, because gank > tank"

"And The removal of AOE heal debuff.
Now I really don't know why you would even consider removing such a vital CORE utility from the game. What were you thinking?
I know that I fought some former staff member leading a group in BFP that night with my half assed warband as a dps dok.
This person gets his ass handed back to him and over night there is a sudden little hotfix note WITH SPOILER that said: AOE healdebuff is been removed from the game.
Seriously? Is it that painfull to get killed by ****? Can't handle the pain to get **** on by the "pug leader" so it must be broken and nerfed?"

"That so called "meta" aka. "1.2.3 fart on my spot I am not creative enough to develop another strategy/warband composition to win large scale fights" strategy was only to be countered by aoe heal debuff and other utility combo btw.
Guess what, you removed both of it now "
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

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Valfaros
Posts: 234

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#58 » Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:58 pm

Yeah definitly had to chuckle when I saw aoe zealot and rp being affected by this nerf. Like oh yeah all those 5-10 people playing it were surely worthy to balance. Slayer, WL etc. is fine with them filling 1/3 of the wb but gotta nerf aoe healdebuff on a spec that rarely gets used at all. Same with dps dok that now has absolutly 0 use in wbs now.

Also @Joshwa70
They gave us one.. and just like our kd and silence.. it requires some luck to use and isnt just appliable.
Oh no the highest meele bursty class with the highest mobility that hits a quadrillion times a second has "only" 10 % chance to proc its aoe healdebuff on his weapon while other classes have a chance of 2% to proc 360 dmg before mitigation. Yes please complain more about your class which also has a kd, silence, out healdebuff and an almost unavoidable pull (lf) with no real tell. The class has access to everything why would it possibly require an aoe healdebuff? Because it has none? Terrible reason most classes don't have half, what wl has access to.

Back to the topic I hope other procs are getting adjusted eventually. Other classes really have pitiful procs on their endgame weapons which I find just ridiculous when looking at this.

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Akalukz
Posts: 1377

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#59 » Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:50 pm

Since this was necro'd I did some testing, IT does hit AoE (tested) it does do 25% and it does not refresh on a target, but it does not have a ICD because two targets can have debuff with 2 different timers. Tested.

Bring some balance, and put it on more Destro classes. Subjugator and Fort Weapons.
-= Agony =-

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zgolec
Posts: 641

Re: [WL] Fort Weapon

Post#60 » Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:32 pm

Lets see... DoK AoE heal debuff, Chosen Aura AoE heal debuff + other classes that are viable to play with ST heal debuff...

Order... No AoE inc heal debuff on any class, some classes with heal debuff are trash and close to useless in WB+ plays [show me WB that will save spot for SW or WH when they can take BW or SLY]

Yep. Seems like destro defenitely MUST HAVE ASAP another thing to AoE heal debuff.

p.s. Should also nerf all heal classes on order just to make it easier for you...

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