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Overarching balance changes

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Poll: Which game mechanic needs to be changed the most?

Guard
25
9%
Cleanse
65
23%
Buff/Debuff stacking
10
4%
Critical damage
33
12%
%Damage mitigation abilities (Detaunt/Challenge/ID/Bellow etc...)
12
4%
Softcaps
10
4%
Morales
13
5%
Group Heal
24
9%
Armor/Resistance stacking and penetration
28
10%
Crowd Control and immunities
58
21%
Total votes: 278

User avatar
Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Overarching balance changes

Post#1 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:30 pm

With the server being down for an extended period of time I think it's good a time as any to start a discussion about a particular part of balance that doesn't get enough imo, 90% seems to be about changes to classes.

What am I talking about?
Spoiler:
Source: viewtopic.php?f=78&t=11105
2 - Make global changes. In this step, we will be considering changes which affect every class and represent the fundamentals of the game (a coarse balance pass). Examples of such fundamentals include the way armor penetration works or the resistance softcaps. We will naturally consider these first because of the great number of elements affected by modifications to these fundamentals.

3 - Make broad changes which affect multiple classes at once. This pass will include any archetype-based and racial modifications. Examples of such elements that could be modified are incorporating weapon DPS to caster ability damage, changing the passive bonuses granted by certain types of weapons, changing racial tactics, or changing the handling of Guard.
These are "steps" listed before addressing individual class balance, so I do think it is important to discuss them sooner than later.

I'd make a thread specific for each mechanic, but with so little discussion I think it would be interesting to see what the community right now thinks is more important or what topics are most heated. And lets be honest, as if balance threads stay on topic anyways :^)

I'll refrain from posting my thoughts for a while just so the thread doesn't turn into a **** show or I get accused of steering this in a direction I want to. And remember the thread isn't about individual class balance or performance, but changes to game mechanics that effect entire archetypes or everyone.

Edit: adding a fun little poll at Penril's request.
Last edited by Jaycub on Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Corvineus
Posts: 18

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#2 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:34 pm

I have to ask.. Why make the thread if you aren't going to post your thoughts?

Personally - I feel balance changes really only affect Scenarios, End-game RvR is so much about the actual role in your setup, and being played well rather than actually having the strongest classes around. It's what made Warhammer so ridiculously unique, in a way that you would always feel useful in end-game PvP. Well.. Bar witch elves / witch hunters whose sole purpose is globalling healers and getting out and/or dying : P

Penril
Posts: 4436

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#3 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:39 pm

Booooooooooring.

At least make a poll with a few options to make it entertaining.

User avatar
Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#4 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:45 pm

Penril wrote:Booooooooooring.

At least make a poll with a few options to make it entertaining.
It's too late now :^)
Corvineus wrote:I have to ask.. Why make the thread if you aren't going to post your thoughts?
A lot of the time it just turns the thread into "arguing with OP" or a flamewar or 6v6 me brah, rather than real discussion.

If no one comes up with something I guess I will have to though.
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Corvineus
Posts: 18

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#5 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:45 pm

I'd love to 6v6 you, brah.

bloodi
Suspended
Posts: 1725

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#6 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:49 pm

You want to discuss changes that will affect everything? Sure, lets go.

Wp/dok are going to get nerfed, they are going to get rid of group cleanse at least, so tell me, why shouldnt they.

Because they should but i am sure someone will find some weird reason (probably something like "its better to buff classes, power creep is a concept i have no idea of") as to why they should not.

So tell me, how is the world going to be without group cleanses?

User avatar
Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#7 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:00 pm

If that is also including the DoK M2 cleanse, than it would destroy the double DoK meta on destro and bring zealot back into the fold at least.

The reason order doesn't have a double WP meta is because WP can't cleanse any destro inc healdebuffs, while DoK can cleanse ALL order inc healdebuffs, and their M2 is essentially a get out of jail free card so running 2 is just really good.
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User avatar
kweedko
Suspended
Posts: 518

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#8 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:35 pm

oooh lets ROLLLL
kweedko wrote:Long time ago when WAR was live i got an idea for some kind of all class balance

here it is make a resists and armor softcap tangled to wearing armor so:

tanks got 75% armor and 35% rez caps (don't start whine they still got block, distrupt and tactics reducing magic damage gona be usefull)
medium armor classes 50% armor 50% rez
cloth classes 35% armor 75% rez

what you think of it guys is it gonna be viable or current system is better, where everybody stacking armor?
DDZEALOTFTW!

And remember No FUN allowed in ROR.

Save the DDZEALOTs proposal viewtopic.php?f=95&t=28103&p=318980#p318980 8-)

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Shadowgurke
Posts: 618

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#9 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:38 pm

Cleansing and Buff stacking imo. Cleansing because feels too spammy for certain classes and there is hardly enough feedback on what get's cleansed. AoE cleanse is obviously a no brainer.

Buff stacking makes so many interesting class mechanics and abilities obsolete because potions/another class already has the same thing.

But then again that might change how much damage is incoming and requires more balancing.
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User avatar
Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#10 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:44 pm

Shadowgurke wrote:Cleansing and Buff stacking imo. Cleansing because feels too spammy for certain classes and there is hardly enough feedback on what get's cleansed. AoE cleanse is obviously a no brainer.
Right now cleanse works by prioritizing the oldest debuff, but as far as I know there is no way of showing which that is even with buffhead, without actually watching them come in from a clean slate.

Are you saying you want to know what is getting cleansed, or that how cleanse functions should be changed?
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